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Let's Talk About This...

Alright, I think we need to have the conversation that not everyone wants to have. Today, I logged onto MTGCardsmith, and I found this:

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Four cards on popular cards, all by the same smith. In all of my years of Cardsmithing, I have never seen this happen once. This is getting a bit out of hand. At first this might look like a classic case of account spoofing. The first time I actually saw a card from one of these accounts on the popular cards page a couple of months, I thought that it was using fake favorites. I how they worked, I used to use them myself. However, upon further inspection, I discovered that all of these accounts were, in fact real. "Oh", I thought, "some people just don't like outstanding designs, I suppose."

Things went dormant for a bit. The creator in question continued to make cards, but they rarely got to popular. Then, theFruit Dragon craze happened. A few decent fruit dragon cards along with a bunch of really crappy ones made it to the front page of MTGcardsmith. What I discovered was that there was a combined front of Cardsmiths going together and favoriting each-others cards. These Smiths are: @Sorinjace, @Dechujoh64, and @East2West. There are a few others in this group, but these are the three who have done the most of this "Circular Faving." In their defense, the fruit dragons were just a kind of fun craze, and they didn't favorite all of each-others cards. The fruit dragons, although mostly pretty bad, were kind of fun, and disappeared after a couple of days. No harm done. The problem is that this same group of creators is having a constant stream of front page attention, even though they don't deserve all of the attention they're getting. The biggest issue, however, is that these cards can't be removed for using "fake Favs" because all of them are favorited by very real accounts.

Look, I know how hard it can be to make it big on this site when you have people like @Faiths_Guide, @Animist, and @Corwinnn who have tons of followers and almost always get at least a few favorites on their cards. But there is a reason for that. The most popular smiths are the ones who make good, well thought out, and well-templated cards on a consistent basis. It's frustrating to see a card that you worked hard on languish in relative obscurity, even though you poured you heart and soul into it. But Faking Favorites and "Circular Faving" Is not the answer. Improve your craft. Make better designs. Over time you'll get there. I mean, in just the time I have been watching @Sorinjace, his designs have improved greatly. They're not the best on the site by any means, but they are getting there.


P.S. This thread is more to discuss the issue of "Circular Faving," not to dump on any of the smiths I mentioned in this thread. All of them show promise, they just need to practice and improve their crafts.

Comments

  • It's not anyone's fault that people can be so self centered in this community. Most everyone does in the facebook groups and this site is bring people down for trying to improve. If people want the better cardsmiths on the front page they need to show how much they really care about each other and do a little more then just pumping out cards and not giving them a chance.
  • I have noticed this also...I don't remember who made the card. For example, probably about a month ago there was a card, and it was a 15/15 progentitus for 5 mana. I would say this card was on the popular page for a week about with 20+ favorites. Now I know new people to magic see a card they think is good and don't think much about the balance, but for me and others who try to make balanced cards it is unfair. I have gotten quite a few favorites on some of my cards, but to make a 5 mana progentius that gets more favorites than any balanced card is so unreasonable, in my opinion.

    I think this relates to your topic a bit because it could a circle of favs like you said. I just wanted to put this out there. :)
  • Favorites more hate less there is your answer to the problem. If everyone was kinder this wouldn't even be an issue.
  • Alright, I just looked at the front page... the first thing I saw was the populars. They were all SorinJace's cards, now SorinJace I do not think this is your fault, but this is so unfair guys. Literally these are in his/hers last eight cards that he/she has made. One of them was posted in a contest at 12 AM, and it is already on the popular page at 5 favorites!
  • Guys come on. Some of us actual try to get favorites just by making good cards not by having friends, or people we know in some way favorite them for us. Now not everyone that was mentioned in @Letstalkaboutthis comment, but still ridiculous.
  • P.S. I do not know any of the people who favorite my cards
  • And just so you know you need to do some research. that card was made the 29th if it was made at 12 am today it would have said it was made the 30th.
  • Personally, I know I've had all four slots previously. Also Animist has once or twice.

    This may be just happenstance. At any rate, it nothing get worried over.
  • Thank you @Faiths_Guide. And @DoctorFro maybe if the cardsmiths reached out and favored less famous cardsmiths they'd get more fallows and likes. Come on guys this is like a social media site its not rocket science!
  • Opinions are like a**holes, we all have one, and the magic community is known to be chock full of them. I'd like to point out some things:
    1. What cardsmith created this discussion?

    2. I have no control over what other cardsmiths favor on here.

    3. I have no control over what other cardsmiths feel is a poorly balanced or made card. Yes some are painfully obvious, and I'm sure that the cardsmith themselves know this, but it hasn't stopped them from making cards. Their heart is in it, and hopefully with time they will get better.

    4. I myself have gotten better at making cards, but I STILL MAKE MISTAKES. I'm not an expert, and I will never claim to be an expert no matter how good I get at this.

    5. I will always praise other cardsmiths for working on cards, even if it's cardsmiths that I may not agree with sometimes or I think need to work more on their own cards. Heck, I still have cards I need to edit!

    5. Fruit Dragons. My god. It's fruit dragons people. Get over it. @East2West made the original 3 as a joke! There was no circle-faving or auto-liking. I just jumped into that because, well, I like to enjoy the fruits of life :P

    6. Thank you to @Faiths_Guide and @Aryanf for your comments. @DoctorFro I don't know everyone who favors my cards as well, what is your username on here I will check your cards out and favor the ones I like :)
    Thank you to all who check out anything I post or any other cardsmith posts. As always, happy cardsmithing!

    Can we get back to making cards now? :)
  • While most cardsmiths aim to destroy all there are some that prefer to just enjoy the fruits of life. - Cherry Dragon flavor text. (But with cardsmiths instead of dragons)
  • @Aryanf

    In response to your very first comment:

    "It's not anyone's fault that people can be so self centered in this community. Most everyone does in the facebook groups and this site is bring people down for trying to improve. If people want the better cardsmiths on the front page they need to show how much they really care about each other and do a little more then just pumping out cards and not giving them a chance.

    This site is hardly bringing down people who work to improve. Having a series of circular favoriting isn't improving or making you better, its like going through a single player campaign in a game with eight people. Very rarely do I make it on popular cards, (Approximately six or seven times total thus far) but when I do, it feels like a treat and a sign that I'm doing something right. That feels far less rewarding when you're essentially getting bloated. We are not trying to drag down creators such as sorinjace, who is certainly improving, we're actually trying to make it POSSIBLE for other creators to become noticed, and have their chance in the spotlight.
  • It's nice to see we aren't the only ones who notice things like this. While this is a disturbing trend, it has also been an ongoing one for a long time. We try to be diligent about following up on issues like this in a timely manner, but they do take a little more research, as in the past we've killed accounts of people who were merely unaware of the Favoriting System we use amongst each other.

    Another thing to keep in mind is that there have been fewer people favoriting cards recently, and fewer well known Cardsmiths creating cards. This doesn't mean only the well known get favorites, but they also tend to be the ones giving out favorites. There have also been an amazing amount of WMTGCS style cards to have to sift through to find the good cards, but if you want to stop cards you think don't deserve a spot in the popular section, the best way is to find cards that do, and favorite them instead!

    We do investigate favoriting trends as we discover them. Some are obvious, and some are subtle. Some are intentional and some are just friends trying to have fun and support one another. We appreciate the candid discussions about this, so we will leave this discussion open for all to read and comment on.
    as long as it stays cordial

    On a personal level, I will give an amazing card a favorite because it truly deserves it, and I'll also give a horrible card a favorite if it makes me laugh.

    image
    Example 1

    image
    Example 2
  • @Corwinnn i was getting there glad you said it.
  • edited January 30
    I really don't see how this merits an entire thread.

    Edit: okay maybe it does.
  • @Aryanf - My first Forum Challenge was an Artwork challenge, and every card in the popular section was a different card with the exact same art...
    image
  • I agree with you @Corwinnn!
    Hey look, i'm not 'dominating' the populars anymore! Thank you!! lol
  • People have different reasons about what they like and on what grounds they give a favorite to these cards. I personally can tolerate it for a moment if the cards on the front page are well made, but it would be good if people would give a second thought what is fair to others when deciding to give a favorite to a card, but in the end it's everyone's own decision. I'm close only with @TenebrisNemo on this site, but I do not give a favorite to each of his cards, even if I said that I like his new card idea and we discussed about it before he would publish it. I'm just afraid about "fav4fav" thing, if groups start automatically giving their favorites to their friends' cards for some reason. I hope that won't happen. But community activity is good for this site, and I definitely feel like I should be more active in these days.
  • I'm sorry that this all happened. I can swear to you that I don't do any auto-favs or anything like them. I googled Red Fantasy art and found the Cherry Dragon image and made a card around it. Someone pointed out that others were making them so I thought I'd support the trend I made and like them. Way more people are getting mad over this than I thought so I'm sorry I started this. I love Cardsmith and it does hurt that people don't believe the cards I make that get front page deserve it. If needed I will remove the original Fruit Dragons if requested by Corwinn.
  • @East2West - No need to feel sorry or delete the Fruit Dragons. Sometimes things happen and we feel caught up in them, but no one thinks you've done anything wrong, in fact, I might be making a Fruit Dragon myself later today!
  • Now, on with the next trend! will it be ninja turtles?(joking!) (i'm just saying ninja turtles because i like the ninja turtles lol)
  • @sorinjace
    Anyway, you've got a nice homage page now. Look, the very first thing we see is four "populars" from you!
  • lol @Faiths_Guide omg lol.
    Hey I made a new contest since my 1st one, the "planeswalkers" contest is coming to an end (anyone want to submit an entry to it has to get it in by 8 p.m. east standard time USA January 31st).
    The new one is called "The Owls Are Gathering" hope any of you go check it out and enter!
  • As a long time user who’s been here for almost all of MTGCS’ existence, minus a bunch of gaping holes, I think it’s appropriate that I comment on this. As @Corwinnn mentioned, I can most certainly agree with the fact that the Favoriting System is indeed broken. It has been broken ever since it was introduced (note that CS didn’t have one in the beginning), and many people have exploited it over the years, not that I think that is the case here. Many people, even without botting, have gotten 4 cards on the front page before, so I’ll withhold any judgement.

    I want to say more, but alas I am busy at the moment and add more to this later.
  • edited January 30
    @Everyone
    Keep in mind, these are just internet points XD
    They are in no way indicative of a cards merit.
    Favorites from certain well-known smiths may be however.

    In short, we can be happy for those who get them, but we need not fret without them.
  • Wow, this is quite the conversation for a recent post.

    I really like some of @sorinjace's stuff. Not all of it is great, but most of it is pretty cool. The Coconut dragon is the best Fruit Dragon in my opinion, and his Porgnography is second to none. While I'm not a huge fan of people having all 4 slots of the front page as we saw in that picture from @Letstalkaboutthis, by the time I came on tonight, only two of them were sorinjace's. 2 cards from the same smith on popular just isn't an issue.

    @Corwinnn yup, there are a ton of WMTGCS cards going on the site currently, and like no one is making cards. This whole "issue" is just a symptom of inactivity I suppose.

    @Faiths_Guide well said! I always prefer a favorite from you or @Corwinnn over 10 from favorites from random smiths with 10/10 cards named soup with the ability bread no one has ever heard of.
  • I'll freely admit that I neither post nor fave as much as I used to. I'm a lurker for the most part, and only really fave cards when I think they're really well done, or else when I'm hosting a challenge. Speaking of, Shameless Self-Promotion!

    But really, the thing to do is to promote your own good stuff as much as you can, not bemoan the sub-par memes that you don't like.
This discussion has been closed.