Rezatta — VISION DESIGN PHASE

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  • Let’s have the church of the muses so it is a paraphrase of the Catholic Church
  • @MagicChess @DoctorFro
    It does make a lot of sense to have a Church of some kind for a Renaissance set ^^
    Having a Church of Muses seems like the most straight-forward way to do it but it's important to have the Muses avoid the comparisons with Gods from other sets if we want to make them really unique, so I'd like to explore other ideas as well before coming to that. Something more along the lines of the Church of Serra on Dominaria maybe?

    By the way, I just kicked back the creative design thread, it would be the perfect place to talk about stuff like this! Renaissance Set - Creative Team

  • They could be saints and then have the WUBRG muse
  • @ningyounk
    Is there any way we can make the set skeleton a more collaborative document? Like can we turn it into a google doc or something. I'm worried it might be hard to keep track of what commons have been designed and what cards are doing certain things and such.
  • edited April 6
    Had some ideas for cards that mess with psylian life.

    2WG
    Creature
    WW: Gain 1 psylian life. Use this ability only as a sorcery.
    2/2

    2WW
    Enchantment
    If you would gain life, you gain that much psylian life instead.

    W
    Instant
    Gain 1 psylian life.

    2W
    Creature
    If you gained life this turn, (blank) enters the battlefield with X +1/+1 counters, where X is the number of psylian life you have.
    2/2
  • edited April 6
    @ningyounk My next step would probably be to establish exactly what each card did. For example, I’d establish that CW01 is a small creature with vigilance (though I’m not sure that’s what I’m gonna put).
  • Would this work?

    2U

    Creature

    At the beginning of your upkeep, compose 1, then repeat this process.

    2/2
  • edited April 6
    @shadow123
    That would chain infinitely. Keep in mind, repeating a process repeats the repeating of the process.

    I think you meant either of the following...
    ---
    At the beginning of your upkeep, compose 1 twice.
    ---
    or
    ---
    At the beginning of your upkeep, repeat the following process once, compose 1.
    ---

    Edit: Otherwise, it requires a condition that would eventually end.
  • edited April 6
    @Gelectrode
    Isn't mana generated by psylian life only colorless!

    or have we added another ability at the cost of more life?


    Oops, misread that from before! (How could I have missed that?)
  • @ningyounk
    How about we make an interactive table later, so we can slot things in using links!

    I'd also like if you can make it more obvious that the first table is for commons. It lacks a broad and obvious title for when people are looking through this later.
  • I am good at writing stories if you need me to and I am alright at making cards idk though someone else could tell me
  • edited April 6
    Hey, @ningyounk, here are some common enchantments based on your design:

    Mastery of Verses
    2W
    Enchantment - Aura
    Enchant creature
    Enchanted creature has "2W, T: Destroy target enchantment."
    When Mastery of Verses enters the battlefield, compose 2.

    Mastery of Painting
    4U
    Enchantment - Aura
    Enchant creature
    Enchanted creature has "4U, T: Draw two cards."
    When Mastery of Painting enters the battlefield, compose 4.

    Mastery of Voice
    3B
    Enchantment - Aura
    Enchant creature
    Enchanted creature has "3B, T: Destroy other target creature."
    When Mastery of Voice enters the battlefield, compose 3.

    Mastery of Choreography
    1R
    Enchantment - Aura
    Enchant creature
    Enchanted creature has "1R, T: Destroy target artifact."
    When Mastery of Choreography enters the battlefield, compose 1.

    Mastery of Sculpting
    5G
    Enchantment - Aura
    Enchant creature
    Enchanted creature has "5G, T: Distribute four +1/+1 counters among any number of target creatures you control."
    When Mastery of Sculpting enters the battlefield, compose 5.
  • Compose 1 twice?
  • @Arceus8523
    I prepared a Google Doc for the design skeleton file but it's empty for now as I wanted to see what we would come up with (I do have a more complete version if needed.) Here's the link: Click Me!

    It could be a good idea to add every design on a separate sheet, this way we can sort them by mechanic and theme and select our favourites ^^ I'll try to do that this week-end.

    @LittleDemon
    All great designs to explore the psylian life mechanic! The power level goes a bit everywhere and there's definitely some uncommons/rares in the bunch but those are some strong concepts we can definitely try after tweaking a few numbers! =)

    @shadow123
    Sure that's a cool concept we definitely have to try! Actually, I even think there are two cool concepts: a card that composes every turn and a card that composes multiple times at once. We definitely should try to have both in the common file to get a sense of how fun those effects are.

    @sanjaya666
    Cool cycle, but it's probably a little strong for common because it's repeatable. There's this amazing article published recently that explained in details how does each rarity works and they specifically mentionned "We don't do cards that can repeatedly gain you card advantage at common (usually things that destroy things or draw you cards)." I think it could be pretty cool as an non enchantment or artifact cycle though if the tap effect became a sacrifice effect, so it's only a one-of like the Puzzleknots of Kaladesh.

    ____________________________________________

    About making the commons set skeleton:

    @TezzeretofCarmot21
    Yeap, that's definitely the spirit ^^ I'd say the next step is to choose the ratio of small/medium/large creatures in each colour, then add the evergreen keywords to make sure we don't forget some. We can also making the mana curve of our creatures if we want, I found that helps.

    Here's White as an example:

    6—white) White has a large proportion of small creatures and no large creature. Its mana curve is also shifted towards the smaller converted mana cost (for instance, it's the most likely colour to get two common one-drops.)

    By the way, here's what small/medium/large creatures mean exactly:
    SMALL — From 0/1 to 3/2
    MEDIUM — From 3/3 to 5/5
    LARGE — From 5/6 to even bigger


    7—white) Now, the creature keywords I want in white are: Flying, First strike, Vigilance.


    8) Also, we want about 15% of the creatures in the set to have a certain level of evasion. For those who don't know, there are three general levels of evasion mentioned in NUTS & BOLTS #8: TROUBLESHOOTING

    Level 1: Mostly can't be blocked—Creatures of this level usually set a "clock" for the opponent, meaning they dictate how many turns until the game ends if the opponent can't find an answer for the creature. The two most common abilities that fall into level 1 are "can't be blocked" and flying. You want to have at least five percent of your creatures in level 1.

    Level 2: Conditionally can't be blocked—These are abilities that under the right conditions make it so the opponent is either at a disadvantage if they block the creature or simply are unable to block it. Keywords that fall in this category include deathtouch, double strike, first strike, indestructible, menace, prowess, and trample. You want to have creatures of this level also be at least five percent of your creatures.

    Level 3: Blocked at a loss—This last level applies mostly to larger creatures that can't be ignored because they do a significant amount of damage but usually require more than one creature to trade. A good example of this would be a 6/6 vanilla creature. If your opponent can't answer it with a spell, they are forced to either trade multiple creatures or continually "chump block" it (meaning blocking with a small creature that will die and simply prevents the damage for a turn). This last level should also be roughly five percent (although this category can dip a little below the other two).

    Now, not every colour should have 5% of each type of evasion, so you have to plan ahead a little bit. To simplify I dediced to follow the design skeleton of Amonkhet and put 4 evasive creatures in each colour following this rough distribution:

    WHITE—1, 1, 2, 3 (I'm putting a 3 thanks to the Rebirth mechanic)
    BLUE—1, 1, 2, 3
    BLACK—1, 1, 2, 2
    RED—1, 2, 2, 3
    GREEN—2, 2, 3, 3

    So it looks like this now (I put the keywords a bit randomly, though I'm planning to have one small flyier and one big flyier in white):

    image


    Does anyone want to try to do the same with the other colours? =)
  • edited April 6
    @ningyounk Like this?

    Verses of the Blissful One
    3
    Artifact
    2W, Sacrifice Verses of the Blissful One: Destroy target enchantment.
    When Verses of the Blissful One enters the battlefield, compose 2.

    Painting of the Fearful One
    5
    Artifact
    4U, Sacrifice Painting of the Fearful One: Draw three cards.
    When Painting of the Fearful One enters the battlefield, compose 4.

    Voice of the Sorrowful One
    4
    Artifact
    3B, Sacrifice Voice of the Sorrowful One: Destroy target creature.
    When Voice of the Sorrowful One enters the battlefield, compose 3.

    Choreography of the Ireful One
    2
    Artifact
    1R, Sacrifice Choreography of the Ireful One: Destroy target artifact.
    When Choreography of the Ireful One enters the battlefield, compose 1.

    Sculpting of the Lovely One
    6
    Artifact
    5G, Sacrifice Sculpting of the Lovely One: Distribute four +1/+1 counters among any number of target creatures you control.
    When Sculpting of the Lovely One enters the battlefield, compose 5.
  • @sanjaya666
    That looks much more like a cycle of common cards yes! =D Note that they can also work well as enchantments if we prefer them coloured, like Seals or Vessels. Usually those kind of cycles are here to support a theme (artifact-matters on Kaladesh, or delirium on Innistrad) but we can always try them for fun, they're rather unusual designs x)
  • edited April 7
    @ningyounk I know what you’re saying. What are the keywords and ratios you want in the other colors - maybe I can make a table for the other colors?
  • edited April 7
    Just had this random idea for a card, its a little odd and uses counters, so its okay if it is decided it doesn't fit with the set at all. :)

    Blank Canvas
    1
    Artifact
    At the beginning of your upkeep, put a paint counter on blank canvas.
    T: Compose X, where X is equal to the number of paint counters on Blank Canvas. Then remove all paint counters from blank canvas.
  • edited April 8
    About sorting the concept cards:

    I added a "Concept Cards Commons" tab on the Design Skeleton Google Sheet where I sorted the concept cards from this conversation. I sorted them by mechanics and by game plan so we can choose our favourites for each slot when start to have more cards than slots available. Also, I didnt put all the informations, just the core concept (this way the creatures / artifacts / enchantments cycle that compose 1 to 5 are just mentioned once.)

    Here are more concepts cards I added, the point here was to explore the different ways to Compose. We already had this:
    - ETB: Compose N
    - {cost}: Compose N. Only as a sorcery.
    - At the beginning of your upkeep, Compose N.
    - (Sorcery) Compose 1 N times

    Here's some more ways to Compose I think could be interesting to test out (we don't need to test everything, but it gives us more options):
    - Sacrifice CARDNAME: Compose N. Only as a sorcery.
    - (Instant) Compose N
    - T: Compose N. Only as a sorcery.
    - Whenever you cast a sorcery spell, Compose N.
    - Landfall—Compose N

    More options for the AGGRO/TRIBAL plan:
    - CARDNAME has flying as long as you control an Art. (Works with any other ability.)
    - Whenever an Art creature enters the battlefield under your control, CARDNAME gets +1/+1.
    - Target creature gets +N/0 and gains first strike until end of turn. If it's an Art, it gains double strike.
    - This spell costs N less to cast if you control an Art.

    More options for the SACRIFICE plan:
    - Sacrifice a creature: CARDNAME gets +1/+1 until end of turn.
    - Whenever you sacrifice a creature, put a +1/+1 counter on CARDNAME.

    ____________________________________________

    About making the commons set skeleton:

    @TezzeretofCarmot21
    That's the exercise, determining how many creatures of each size do each colour get and what keywords do we want in each colour ^^ Of course anyone can help, it's not just you :) If you want some help at first, I can give you the ratio I'd use for the next colour and let you figure out the mana costs and keywords? It's probably funnier to do it from scratch though, so you actually have to think about where to get this kind of information. You can take your time, or tell me if you just don't have time it's ok ^^
  • @ningyounk Sure, give me the ratio. I’m about to board a flight but Ill post again as soon as I can.
  • ____________________________________________

    About making the commons set skeleton:

    @TezzeretofCarmot21 Alright, there are four colours remaining, I'll guide you with the creature-sizes ratio of two colours. Based on those examples, you (or anyone who is interested in trying) can use the Nuts & Bolts articles and already existing sets to figure out the size ratio for the two remaining colours, add the evergreen keywords in each colour, then adjust the evasion levels if needed =D Let's say I'll jump in again to help if no one proposed a solution by next saturday ^^

    For blue and black, I propose these ratios of creature sizes:

    BLUE — It gets almost exclusively small creatures, one medium (ok, maybe two) and one large creature (optional but I choose to start with one here) which is usually a large sea serpent like a Leviathan or a Kraken.

    BLACK — It gets a mix of small and medium but never large. Let's say four medium. It's a bit like White but the mana curve is going to be higher.

    It looks like this now:

    image


    Note that I may be a little generous with the medium-sized creatures, but looking at more recent sets they seem to favour having slightly more medium-sized creatures than what the original Nuts & Bolts article (#2) originally stated.
  • @shadow123
    Great idea for a card! But I think we are working on commons right now. :)
  • I know, but I just had to show that one.
  • I'd like to make some cards!
  • How do I insert the spreadsheet? I finished with the blue commons but can’t find a way to insert it.
  • @shadow123 @LittleDemon
    That's a cool card =D Don't worry, it's perfectly fine to design non-commons, we keep those cards for later in a specific file so we can look back a them, and they can sometimes bring inspiration for different things as well :)

    @MagicalMagic
    Welcome then! =D You can either help with the main focus right now which is filling up the common skeleton, or you can design creative and inspirational cards that fits the set. If you don't know where to start, there are some guidelines about what we need most in the introduction. ^^

    @TezzeretofCarmot21
    Multiple ways:
    - You can post it directly in text format on this discussion.
    - You can make a table on whatever software you like and send us a picture like I did above.
    - You can use the Google Sheet, Tabs "Commons Only" (by the way, I fixed the broken link in the comment above.)
  • Is story switched over to Creative design?

    We talked about religion a lot last phase. I think my favorite was the worship of knowledge, learning, and individualism.

    I think a sketchbook and a painting would be enough to show a female da vinci.


    Concept card since Machivelli was mentioned

    Expenitentiamancer (1)(u)(u)
    Creature-human wizard
    At the end of each opponent's turn, if you did not lose life this turn, create a copy of this card.
    (1/1)

    To reiterate, someone please make an interesting enough to play white gorgon.

    Also, I would like to try making an art piece for a card. As soon as you know which one it could be, tell me so I can start doing sketches.
  • edited April 8
    Hello @ningyounk , I wondered if it was too late to participate. If not, what is the immediate/current creative phase ? As I read throughout the thread it seems that only sketch-esque card concepts are posted. Is it too early to create fleshed-out cards ?

    If the "creative team" is fully staffed though, I will still follow this project. From what I've seen in the other threads, it looks damn awesome already.
  • @brcien
    Yeap, we took advantage of the new Creative Team thread to move all the story stuff on another thread so it's a bit easier to follow ^^

    Expenitentiamecer is a cool card, definitely could be a Mythic in this set, but I don't recognize Machiavelli in this card, he's mostly known for being ruthless in politics, his card should represent that the best we can.

    What's your vision for a white Gorgon? How would you approach it flavourfully?

    You can do art? That's amazing! :o Can we see a bit of you previous works? We could be able to assign you a card as soon as we're ready to lock a card in the file. Another possiblity would be to do an inspirational artwork which role is too help designers represent the world they're building. Here's an example from a Making Magic article that explained they used early concept illustrations like this to get a feel of Dominaria before starting to design it:

    image


    @ASubtleGhost
    You're more than wecome! Anyone can participate, people just come and go as they want =)

    Right now, we're at the beginning of Vision Design. We have defined themes and mechanics in Exploratory Design, we'd like to test them out. We need to make a first design skeleton and fill it with commons so we can have a first playtest to get a sense of what works and what doesn't with our mechanics and themes. As the goal for this first concept cards is less to build a balanced experience of gameplay and more exploring the tools we have, we are mostly doing sketch-esque cards yes ^^

    You can create more fleshed-out card though, we keep them somewhere but they could change significantly depending on what we change about our themes and mechanics after the first playtests. Still, a very flavourful card that works well in a vaccum has some good chances to be added to the final file =) There are some guidelines for cards we need in a vaccum in the introduction, if you need a place to start (it's mostly about reinforcing the Renaissance and emotions theme.)
This discussion has been closed.