[HELP] Conditional Reflexive Trigger?

Hello everyone,

I'm scratching my head on something a bit technical. Basically I want to try a cycle of instant cards with pseudo-addendum for a custom set (you might have seen the Rezatta thread going around). The idea is that you "Discover" if you cast your instant during your main phase. Then, you get a simple effect. Here's an example:

image


Now, with most of those spells there is actually some interesting synergies with choosing the targets AFTER you've discovered, because Discover allows you to cast cards in the middle of the resolution of your spell. In this example for instance, you could cast a creature spell you discovered and then might want to have this new creature you didn't have when you cast the spell do the fighting. But it's extremely wordy to do so, not really common-friendly. Here's an example:

image


The best way to do this cleanly would probably be to use reflexive triggers, a.k.a. the "when you do" technology. But here If I write the following:

If you cast this spell during your main phase, discover.
When you do, target creature you control fights target creature you don't control.

I believe the reflexive trigger doesn't work, because if you don't discover, the trigger doesn't happen. So, the spell do nothing at instant speed?

Do you know of any examples on how to do that? Any idea on how to template this correctly?

___

P.S: The card is just a mock-up, it really has no name and illustration, I put that together quickly so it's more comfortable to look at ;)

Comments

  • I don’t think there is an easy way to do this since the effect that precedes the reflexive trigger needs to happen every time. That being said, a workaround would be to make a third effect. For the card above

    "If you cast this....Discover.
    Put a +1/+1 counter on target creature. When you do, it fights..."

    This isn’t a full solution but it is a way to make cards as you mentioned albeit With a narrower design space
  • @bnew07
    The +1/+1 counter would need a target as you cast the spell though, it's really displacing the fight problem to the +1/+1 counter targeting :/ Also, I'm trying to make a cycle and this won't be compatible with some effects.

    Thank you for contributing though! I didn't think of that, it's an interesting starting point, I'll think of a way of using that =)
  • @ningyounk
    This is the easy solution.
    ---
    Choose a creature you control and a creature another player controls. You may have them fight.
    ---

    This is due to targets requiring to be on cast, where choices can be after prior effects.
  • I think using “then” instead of “when you do” might solve this?

    If you cast during main, discover. Then, choose two targets. They fight.
  • It isn't really the point right now:
    image
  • edited April 21
    To be honest, I think both the mechanic and spell in this case are fine as is. The main issue is that you're trying to make it "common friendly" and that's not really possible with an effect like this. Just the idea of taking one part of this card and altering the second part, in of itself, is rather uncommon.

    The main thing, I think, is that when you use the "Discover" mechanic at common level, don't have it interact that complexly with the spell being cast.

    So, for this spell to remain at common, it should say target to remove a deeper complexity, or you can use the "choose" wording, but up it to uncommon.
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