• I like this one!
  • @faiths_guide you are on to something there. You guys are getting closer! I love both and especially the first one.
  • edited May 2018
    Last three versions:
    image image image
  • @faiths_guide Two is my favorite but three is also wonderful.
  • @Faiths_Guide
    Those are some interesting concepts! I'm a little short on time so I'll try them at card scale later (I have a sealed event tonight =D) I especially like the variation #3 with a more metaphorical butterfly at large scale.
  • @ningyounk
    Ya, I'm fond of #3 as well. It gets across palettes, hearts, and butterflies.

    Good luck at your event!
  • @ningyounk May you pull two foil Karns and go 4-0 :)
  • @Faiths_Guide
    A lot to talk about in the set symbol department!
    First, those are really cool. I'm impressed by how fast you come up with all of those designs =)

    More specifically:


    On the painted heart concept, I feel this is much closer to the right thickness ^^ We definitely see the difference at common, this time the heart is clear. I like the idea of putting the brush on the side, it's simple and I think it works better at small size. I'm not sure the additional swirl at the tip of the brush works at large size because it's breaking the illusion that the brush is forming the heart.



    For the butterfly palette concept, I like the general shape at small size, you really can see the heart, the buttefly and the palette mixed altogether which is a nice bonus. The paint circles of the palettes are too small for card size I believe, I wouldn't go smaller than the thumb hole. My best guess is that just a couple of paint circles plus the thumb hole might be enough to evoke a palette, even on a shape that's not exactly a palette but may be two-lobed like a butterly wing.

    For the butterfly, as I already mentioned I like the more "metaphorical" better at large size, though the details are a bit lost at card size. Basically, the final goal is to get something that's simple, pretty to look at, yet evocative. So when I say "butterfly" I'm thinking less of the insect look like the first and more like the "logo" look like the second or those examples:

  • Here's just one try based on the first shape:


    I'm not a huge fan of the big blend shape of the wing, but it's just another concept idea.
  • edited May 2018
    @Faiths_Guide @ningyounk I personally love the idea of a butterfly set symbol.
  • @ningyounk I like your first one.
  • edited May 2018
    Working on completing at least a cycle for each set mechanic, so far I believe I showed a cycle for each of those mechanics:
    - Advancement cycle (Discover something then pump to show progress.)
    - Ideal cycle (If EMOTION, enters the battlefield with a +1/+1 counter.)
    - Animator cycle (Compose 1 through 5)

    Here's a cycle idea to test out Rebirth, the Ascendant cycle. Those are french vanilla creatures with Rebirth + an evergreen keyword that synergizes with Rebirth. (For the blue one, the synergy is that you can flash it turn 4 to rebirth it immediatly turn 5.)

    image image image image image

    As usual, I made them very generic because they're just concepts, but "Ascendant Bat" would definitely be too lazy as far as flavour is concern to be part of the final file (expecially without flying) XD
  • @ningyounk,
    If we were considering having Reborn creatures become Angels, the Ascendant Bat and Beast don't really make sense. I think the idea is Reborn creatures are so fully inspired that they become something more, infused with the power of their imagination. I suppose it could work with animals, but I think it makes more sense with people.
  • @MagicChess
    Hence the reason I'm apprehensive about making things into angels when we rebirth them. It's a flavor fail when on non-humanoid creatures. Obviously we want a world with creatures beyond just humans, elves, and the like, and I'd hope we can actually put our mechanics on those creatures too as opposed to having them just be big dumb beaters.
  • @MagicChess
    The angel thing is still under consideration, I just ignored it for those concept cards. It's just easier to sell a cycle of cards with art than with just text, but any Rebirth creature would obviously be flavoured accordingly to the type we decide the creatures to become. The best way to test this may be to mix reborn, angel and legendary in the same file and see which cards are resonant or not, as well as which have the most design space.

    P.S: For those who have no idea what this is about, we got a conversation about the flavour of Rebirth on the creative thread. We basically have three versions under consideration:

    1) Rebirth {cost} ({cost}, Exile this nonreborn creature: Return it to the battlefield reborn with two +1/+1 counters on it. Rebirth only as a sorcery.)
    ==> The classic that shows any kind of transformation. The fact that it's so open-ended might make it blurry, what does it actually mean to be reborn in this world?

    2) Rebirth {cost} ({cost}, Exile this nonlegendary creature: Return it to the battlefield legendary with two +1/+1 counters on it. Rebirth only as a sorcery.)
    ==> Focus the Rebirth mechanic on showing how people become famous after great discoveries/masterpieces. Enhance the impact of the mechanic but reduces its design space.

    3) Rebirth {cost} ({cost}, Exile this nonangel creature: Return it to the battlefield with two +1/+1 counters on it. It's an angel in addition to its other types. Rebirth only as a sorcery.)
    ==> Came from the idea that angels of Rezatta could be people that became better instead of crafted beings like usual. It would need to have a broad definition of angel as something that's not necessary flying, but just a person that became better. There are concerns about how well this reads (we can't change the name of the mechanic for this, because the number one role of this mechanic is to scream "It's a Renaissance set"), how well it translates on non-flying creatures (both for balance and illustration issues we can hardly have them all get flying) and design space in general.
  • Honestly, I prefer the original Rebirth because the "legendary" thing would be quite awkward on multiples in Limited, whilst the "angel" thing is, as others have stated, a flavor fail.
  • Can you use rebirth in graveyard?
  • @shadow123, no. The trigger only works if the creature is on the battlefield, and anyway, the flavor isn't supposed to be reanimating corpses or coming back to life, but instead being forged anew by your imagination.
  • Hey guys, I wanted to let you know that I have a deadline for Friday at work so I may be slightly less active this week but I'm still around ^^

    Meanwhile, if you haven't already, you should really really really check out the start of the Great Designer Search from yesterday. It's a bit time-consuming to read but it's just a goldmine of information and good advice that's simply too good to pass on!


    For @Faiths_Guide more specifically , I haven't skipped over your latest set symbol addition, I'll come back to it as soon as I have enough time =)
  • @ningyounk
    No deadlines here. Hopefully yours is easily met!
  • @Faiths_Guide How did you make the icons
  • edited May 2018
    I'm an Assistant Project Manager and AutoCAD technician at a large land development firm. I simply used the Autodesk AutoCAD program available to me. In other words, I drafted them digitally.
  • edited May 2018
    @Faiths_Guide Cool, I might have to get your help with my set symbol
  • @pjbear2005
    I'd be happy to help!
  • @Faiths_Guide Okay I will message you when I get to that point
  • @Faiths_Guide Would you mind making me a set symbol?


    For the new painted heart iteration, I feel like the swirl inside actually reduces the readability, especially at rare where the outline turns black instead of white so it becomes more noticeable that it touches both the brush and the lower part of the heart. But I really like the dynamic of the whole shape, it's clear, simple and appealing. Especially the reduction of width at the bottom, you really get a sense of motion from it.

    On a side note, I tried to see if it was possible to get a brushed effect on the paint, but it doesn't seem to translate at card size unfortunately :/





    Now for the other two:



    I don't think you really see the head of the butterfly on the second version of this new buterfly-palette iteration so I think I prefer the simpler one on top for readability. For the same reason, I'm also not a fan of the lower triangle that is fancy but reduces the readability of the overall shape, especially at Rare because of the black outline. The lower bars are a really cool idea that makes it look more like a buttefly!

    I think I'd try to push a little further in that direction so the general shape looks even more like a butterfly because I don't think it looks as appealing as the painted heart right now. Basically, I think a buttefly with palette wings is a more beautiful concept to look at than two palettes trying to create a butterfly impression.

    I asked "What is it" to my 22 years-old sister without any context and she said "two palettes." I pushed her and only then she said "a butterfly" (coming second) adding "Could also be two faces, or a little boat. It looks like the Rorschach ink test in psychology." I believe the symmettry may be a bit strong?

  • She was able to figure it out right away - two palates and then a butterfly!
  • @Scott_Anderson
    I meant that it would probably be prettier to see a butterfly *then* realize they actually have palette wings instead of seeing two palettes sideways *then* realize it kinda look like a butterfly. But yes, she found both elements which means we probably have an interesting lead! ^^


    I'm putting the following thoughts here because I'd like to find them back easily later ^^
    At the every beginning, when Rebirth went through 50 different versions, one of them allowed you to recast your nonreborn creatures from the battlefield instead of just blinking them. It would go a bit like this:

    Rebirth {cost} (If it's not reborn, you may cast this creature from the battlefield for its rebirth cost. If you do, it enters the battlefield reborn with two +1/+1 counters on it.)

    Right now, it's not really useful because it's longer and more confusing than what we have, but if we want to make the Rebirth reminder text closer to actual rules or just add more qwirkiness to the set one day, it may be useful. I'm talking about this because a participant from the GDS3 proposed a similar idea, except it was meant to steal your opponent's stuff. So we got the opinion of Eli Shiffrin, the Magic Rules manager himself, who said it was possible though doing that on permanents you don't control was not a good idea (but with Rebirth it could probably be fine since you only do that on your own permanent.)


    The card: Trial 3 Design 5 of LINUS ULYSSES HAMILTON

    Ashiok, Dream Collector (mythic rare)
    Planeswalker — Ashiok
    +2: Each player draws two cards.
    -2: Target opponent draws a card, then reveals his or her hand. You may play a card from it without paying its mana cost.
    -9: You get an emblem with You may cast nonland cards on the battlefield you don't control.

    Comment from Eli Shiffrin:

    Casting things off the battlefield is theoretically possible, but it causes no small amount of weirdness. What if the other player want to activate its ability in response? Priority fights aren't fun. What if it's face-down? I can move it to the stack, look at it, and then determine whether or not I can or want to cast it. Perhaps you can get to the same goals by having the emblem let you pay a permanent's mana cost to exile it and cast it for free, or even having it simply gain control of a one by paying its mana cost.
This discussion has been closed.