Rezatta Set Design - Uncommons Part 2

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  • Would be nice for some rare planswalkers notat mythic
  • @Omtegu I don't think the designing process is quite at that point yet, but it's a good thing to at least bring up in passing, especially when the process gets to that point
  • @Omtegu

    A priori we won't have any planeswalkers under Mythic rarity on Rezatta, I'm afraid. That was done during War of the Spark to support the planeswalker theme, but planeswalkers are an inherently problematic card type as they provide a lot of value by themselves and can be quite oppressive if unanswered, so they're best used with parsimony. If something specific in the set leads us to need a rare planeswalker, we might reconsider this, but at a baseline we're going to aim at the regular two-or-three Mythic planeswalkers and that's it.
  • I've made physical playtest cards of all the uncommons and I've started to slowly test them out over the last week (It's going to take a while since decks need some amounts of commons to function). So far the white card drawing Violin has been pretty underwhelming as you rarely want to invest 4-mana into an artifact that doesn't do anything right away and then more mana every time to have both players draw a card. Even in the WU deck, which it was initially though for, I just feel the need to cast it or activate it too rarely.

    In parallel, the prison enchantment has also felt a bit off. It's nice as a 4-mana flash prison, but the last ability is too inconsequential and I keep just forgetting about it. 

     

    So I'm considering fusing them, what do you think if this design? 




    I'm documenting my thought about each card after I feel I had a got test out of them. I'm pretty happy with a lot of cards so far, and a few of them feel like they will feel nice after some minor tweaks, but I feel I'm progressing slower than with the commons so that's going to take a while ^^"
  • edited March 2021
    I feel like it should say "exile target nonland permanent you don't own" (rather than control). If your opponent stole one of your cards, and then you exile the stolen cards with this, wouldn't you draw two cards? Other than that, I think this is a pretty good card.
  • @feralitator I feel like it would be perfectly legal to target a creature you own but don't control with Golden Cage. However, I think that saying "you and the controller of the exiled card" would work better with what you're saying, since the card's controller would still control the card after Golden Cage leaves the battlefield
  • I'm not sure that players control exiled cards. I'm pretty sure they are just owned. I think the safer option would be to exile something you don't own.
  • edited March 2021
    SpellPiper2213 @feralitator

    Thanks for the feedback! =D

    Currently, if you would exile a permanent you own but that is under your opponent control, what would happen is that you would be the only one to draw a card — though you would draw only one card. I was thinking it was such a corner case it didn't really matter, but the fact that both of you immediately went there is probably a sign it would be confusing. "Exile a permanent you don't own" and "you and the controller of that card each draw a card" are both a bit irregular as they would both work but would require some extensive rules knowledge.

    I think a simpler fix to prevent any funny interaction would be to change the restriction instead. By the way, I'm still not sure what cost would be attractive for repeated group hug draw, but I didn't feel like activating that much when it was 3-mana so I'm trying 2-mana; this is very empirical, if anyone has a more reasoned idea on how much this should cost. Because Howling Mine is a rare effect, I feel like it shouldn't be free as an uncommon, but that might also be the best fit ^^"

     Howling Mine

  • @ningyounk I think that the new version of Golden Cage is good. It's not as complex as the original version, and the confusion about the card draw is cleared up. It gives both you and an opponent a bonus if you don't own the exiled card, but doesn't neccesarily hurt you if you own it.
  • Since Crystal Violin and Excommunication were mixed together, won't a new white uncommon be required?
  • edited April 2021
    @feralitator

    Oh there will be way more than one white uncommon required at the end of the playtest x) Playing with the cards for the first time usually shakes things a lot, whole archetypes may have to move. I've currently playtested 93% of uncommons, and here's where I'm at: 

    20% of cards were awesome, I particularly enjoyed them and use them as reference
    27% of cards were fine, there might be ways to improve them but they did their job
    23% of cards had a good concept but there's something that needs to be changed
    14% of cards were problematic and would require big modifications to work
    16% of cards were really bad ideas and probably can't be salvaged in any way of form

    So that's probably a solid third of the cards that will need to be remade from scratch (including the violin).

  • Alright, I've finished playtesting every uncommon at least a little. Obviously it's impossible to get a sense of each card in every possible match-up but I made sure to cast each of them in actual situations to get a feel of how they impacted the game.

    Fair disclaimer, this is going to be a quite long review so I'm probably going to do it over the course of several days as I'm in the middle of a formation right now. I'm going to separate the cards into five different categories: 

    1. AWESOME! I really enjoyed playing with those cards, they were pushing in the direction I would like their archetype to go so the set feels fun and interactive.
    2. Nice! Those cards weren't especially exciting but they felt right, they make the play experience smooth and I was happy to draw into them and play with them.
    3. Ok-ish. Those cards showed some potentials, I think there might be a version of them that's fun but it will likely require some changes.
    4. Not-a-fan... Those cards didn't play well, they really need to change, but it might be possible to do something fun with their core concept.
    5. Mistakes were made... Those cards felt like they were actively harming the game. They need replacements, probably starting from scratch.
    After that, I'll share more general thoughts about the set synergies and the archetypes in general. I also have some minor tweaks to commons after playtesting them some more with the uncommons.

    CATEGORY I : AWESOME!



    Serran Soulwarden: It was both a great enabler and pay-off in any white deck that cares about life. It was synergistic with almost any White deck in some way, great glue card. It's strong but I didn't find it oppressive and it feels great with pump strategies.

    Four-Hands Composer: It had a really interesting play pattern. It almost felt like an aura since White itself has very few Masterwork synergies. I wouldn't mind having it at 4-mana instead of 3, but this cheap iteration made it interesting in more agressive decks as well.

    Cry for Faith: It felt very solid in almost any White deck, both options are pretty interesting in different situations. It was a great reward in general without feeling too oppressive.



    Dancing Wave: It felt very effective and had amazing synergy with both WU and UB decks, acting like solid glue. The play pattern was definitely interesting and offered some unexpected decisions.

    Minister of Serra: It really felt that's what the WB Angels and Clerics should be doing. Even if it's in the AWESOME! category, it actually felt a bit too strong as it can easily make the opponent lose 8-10 life. It might be better as a WB reward, I initially wanted to keep the option to play it in UB Art, but it wasn't worth it in in that deck anyways.

    In Memoriam: This was the most defining card for the BG Renewal archetype for me, it plays great in basically any black deck and the +2/+2 counters felt just right. The Art part honestly never came up, but I didn't see a reason to cut it either.



    Garden Adventurer: At first it felt like a simple nice glue card. And the more I played with it the more I realised this was the backbone of most red decks I was building. This is the card you want to cast on turn 2, most of the time. It's really strong and really synergistic, but it does lose its edge eventually, which is desirable. 

    Winds of Change: This was surprisingly strong. It encouraged attacking in a fun way and weighted on the game just the right amount to matter without feeling oppressive. I'll talk later about other cards in this cycle that didn't work as well and I feel this concept is the solution.

    Sudden Epiphany: The play pattern is really interesting as you need might want to mill a card in the hope that the next one will be better. It usually played like "draw a card and scry 1 or 2 on top of making every discover synergy explode", which felt perfectly fine for just 2-mana. It felt like a turn 5-ish cards, I'd say, without mana synergies.



  • Thrill of Adventure: This card is really strong (maybe a bit too much?) but the play pattern was super interesting as it also pushed you to attack with small creatures that would normally die. With the help of the 2 damage, the opponent actually don't want to block them in a lof of cases as they would trade.

    Apostle of Past Ways: It felt really defining for the RG archetype, but it was also bearing a lot of weight from any deck that wanted to add more colours and it wasn't disappointing. The +1/+1 counter felt just like enough to want to care about your life parity.

    Mask of Comedy: It felt surprisingly fun to play with. It's not difficult to get in a situation where both outcomes are fine, and you just happily spin the wheel. I actually think it could cost one less-mana for the same equip cost.



    Solstice Voyage: It's completely fine in your average two-colours green deck, but it felt like exactly the right reward for the pentacoloured deck. It wasn't even that difficult to pay WUBRG honestly, and it felt really cool.

    Soul of the Library: This card is the bread and butter of the WU deck, it's usually the first card you play in the turn and it's everything you want it to be, but at the same time there are some cool decisions about when you need to save your mana for something else.

    Thrilling Actor: This is a very strong card but it feels like just the right reward for the BR deck. Even if I put it in the AWESOME! section though, it's possible it would be more appropriate at 3-mana since this puts a lot of pressure very early in the game.



    Snow Chimera: This card was putting just the right amount of pressure for a RG card without being too oppressive. It definitely has to potential to deal a huge chunk of damage very quickly but it's also manageable if you're solid on defense.

    Sparkmage Instructor: This was really defining of what's fun with the discover archetype. The surprise burst damage could be really unexpected on both sides of the table, it pushes the archetype in the right direction.  

    Collector of Faith: It's always difficult to judge sideboard hate cards, but this one felt on the verge on being main-deckable thanks to its useful creature types. It was actually picking up some random counters and slowing down life gain strategies to the point where I was considering it like a legit option to fill in slots in the UB and WB decks.
  • CATEGORY II: Nice!



    Messenger of Serra: Both abilities were useful at some point without being anything super impressive. It was doing its job just fine, but I wouldn't care if we changed it.

    Rays, Avatar of Victory: This was actually a bit on the strong side as it's very playable even if you're not over your starting life total. It will annihilate you if you're behind, but you can interact with it pretty easily and the legendary rules keeps it in check.

    Inspiring Archpriest: This card is at the frontier of the AWESOME! category honestly as it was really defining of White's strategy. The body itself felt super relevant and the pump ability is so much fun. My only bemol is that is was *A LOT* of math to do. I think a version where it puts +1/+1 counters on your creatures might be better because of this.



    Prayer of Change: This was very fun, it actually made reaching the Renaissance threshold much easier. The token comes up very often, to the point where I'm wondering if it's a good idea to have it flying. Maybe vigilance or first strike would be more appropriate.

    Painted Augur: This card also felt like a backbone of most blue decks and is at the limit of the AWESOME! category. My only bemol is that the body felt super useless. If feel like we can make it a bit more impactful, either on offense or defence.

    Swirling Requiem: The card worked great and really was begging for more graveyard synergies to work with it in UB Art. The amount of cards it was looting through every turn was actually a bit much, maybe it's the signature trigger of Art cards that should be reconsidered so it triggers a bit less often.



    Blizzard Phantasm: It felt like a simple and efficient catch-up feature. The lack of relevant creature type made it slightly awkward though, it felt like it really wanted to be an Art and would have found a home much more often in a deck with that.

    Flock of Books: This was one of the MVP of the discover strategy. It was definitely on the verge of the AWESOME! category as it was synergising with different blue archetypes as well. The one thing I would change would be to remove the last ability. I never really used it, and the card felt strong enough without it.

    Well-Rounded Bargain: It felt really unique and interesting gameplay wise, but it also felt a bit strong. It's possible that this might be better-suited as a rare card or an exchange effect instead.
  • edited April 2021

    Drunk Wolf: This card was never really embarrassing thanks to the nice options available, and really shined a couple times in the right deck. I'm not even sure why this wasn't in the AWESOME! category now that I think about it. It did feel like indestructible would be a super fun option to add, but all the other options already felt great and I fear it would be a bit much. 

    Warnings of Change: The card was relevant but never really felt game-changing either. Black felt like it could use a bit more life gain, and this definitely felt like it could use the life gain, but it might be a bit much.

    Demise of the Unsightly: This felt very swingy for obvious reasons. It was amazing on "ugly" creatures but it never really got stuck in your hand so that's nice. The scry 1 helped, for sure.



    Doctor's Recompense: The instant speed was the real deal-maker here, it felt great in the BR deck though it's starting to flood with card draw options a bit. The card is nice but didn't felt necessary either, and it could use maybe a "gain 2" life at the end.

    Crown of Creativity: This was surprisingly fun to play with, honestly I wanted to add it to every red deck after testing it and it was synergistic in a lot of ways. I kept forgetting about the second ability, but when you play it as intended it's quite strong. Almost in the AWESOME! category, but the 3-mana equip cost felt a bit much, I think it'd be funnier with an equip cost of 2.

    Fight with Fire: It was a quite powerful card with great synergies, I never ran into the problem where the backfire was so problematic that it wasn't worth casting. It does have a lot of competitions and some similar cards in other colours though, so we'll need to add more diversity.




    Gallery Curator: This effect felt like an excellent mix with the masterwork playstyle. The stats were a bit underwhelming but deathtouch definitely helped there. I still think it's possible to boost it a bit with +1/+0 for instance. The trigger also felt a bit cumbersome, honestly I think "Whenever you cast a spell with masterwork" is just fine.

    Calls of Change: There were a lot of little synergies and it was really helping the RG archetype. It felt like a nice support card, glue that pushes the game in the right direction without impacting it too much. If there are too many +1/+1 counters in green, it could definitely be changed to something else.

    Queenwoods Pied Piper: The effect itself was solid but GU was really struggling and this card didn't felt like it was helping enough. The body was a problem for sure, it needs better stats, and it's possible that wants to become a monocoloured effect instead to leave the floor for something more impactful.

    Solemn Sentinel: It's obviously difficult to cast at 7-mana, but it felt like the right reward for UB art since it has a slower play style with graveyard synergies. Overall, I think it's definitely worth keeping though it's not going to be cast super often.

  • CATEGORY III: Ok-ish.



    Growling Missionary: The card felt amazing in agressive decks and Renaissance strategies, though ironically none of them are centred around White. So I guess it does its job fine, which is tempting you into splashing White. It didn't feel as explosive as I was fearing, once you have a body with 3-toughness it shouldn't be a problem anymore.

    Excommunication: It's doing its job perfectly fine but the last ability felt completely irrelevant. There's probably room for something more synergistic in there.

    Serra's Judgement: It felt nice to cast but it was also awkward and outright dangerous at times. Overall, it creates frictions with other removal cards in other colours so this might be the first place to diversify removal a bit.



    Arcane Folio: The card was amazingly fun to play with, but it's probably too strong for uncommon. I think it needs to have a cost attached to the activated ability if it stays at uncommon. I also forgot the last ability 99% of the time as it's not particularly relevant, I think we can get rid of it entirely.

    Another Self-Portrait: It was fun and synergistic but a bit overwhelming in terms of UB triggers synergies. I think it would be more manageable for everyone if it said "Whenever CARDNAME enters or leaves the battlefield, create a 1/1 Art creature token" instead and got a combat-relevant keyword in exchange for his troubles.

    Brash Announcer: It definitely can get in for 2 or 3 damage in the first couple turns but the fact that it doesn't have haste or any kind of evasion makes it less impressive than I anticipated. Aggro doesn't need help in the set right now, so haste might be a bit much, but maybe +0/+1 could be an option to consider.



    Intimidating Violonist: The play pattern was really fun but it's waaaaaaay too strong for 2-mana. This needs to cost at least 3-mana. 

    Xyurn, Avatar of Fury: It's quite swingy, it often can attack for 7 to 9 with trample, which feels a bit broken for just 3-mana, but once you attacked, if you had less life than the opponent, the fact that its power becomes 0 is awkward. I think it should stays as it's a great reset button against life gain strategies, but it might be better at four mana and +1/+0.

    Frostbreath Dragon: It did the job just fine and it's great to ramp into but it didn't feel that explosive either. I think its main problem was that its toughness was a bit low, it got traded in the sky surprisingly often. I would consider +0/+1 maybe to help.

  • Set Ablaze: The additional upsides didn't come up enough that it felt like anything but a 3-mana shock. I don't think this is the right place for the "can't gain life" red cards. If felt fine, just not the premium burn spell it's supposed to be.

    Canvas Hopper: The fact that it didn't do anything before it died was a bit awkward, I think there's room for a little something more, though the stats felt great. In particular, it felt like it really wanted to recuperate any card, not just permanents. 

    Wily Squirrel: This felt too scary, the first ability is really oppressive and should probably be changed. Otherwise, green Ajani's Pridemate felt like a great idea in play.



    Gobold, Avatar of Vigor: The body was super respectable on its own, so the Daunt ability felt like a bit too much. I think this one shouldn't be evasive, either have +1/+0 instead or a less agressive keyword like reach, possibly vigilance.

    Spring Upon: This felt a bit too efficient for Green honestly, and it was also creating friction with concepts from other colours. I think this one is a place where the removal can be diversified a bit.

    Moonlight Angel: It played fine but paying serran life like that didn't really feel like it was what the archetype was trying to do. I felt like it would have been more synergistic with a "If you have N or more serran life" ability instead.



    Dance All Night: This didn't feel explosive enough considering it was supposed to be the pay-off of the whole aggro RW archetype. To be fair, the whole archetype felt vastly underpowered, but not having a strong signpost really didn't help.

    Crystal Diadem: The protection ability felt like too much. In addition, the whole masterwork archetype has too many protective options to choose from. The mana filtering ability felt amazing in the pentacoloured masterwork archetype and should definitely stay, but it felt weird as an equipment.

    Golden Gates: The card actually plays amazing, but it's not particularly strong. It's a bit awkward as it has the complexity of an uncommon but the power of a common. I'm looking for ways to make it just slightly stronger. 
  • CATEGORY IV: Not-a-fan...



    Dance Leader: Even in a dedicated deck, it very rarely found more than one creature and the lack of combat-relevant ability made it quite underwhelming. It felt ok as a support card but it's supposed to be one directional card that pushes you into the RW archetype in white.

    Crystal Violin: It didn't play too bad but it was very underwhelming and not worth a slot in a deck overall. I still liked the group hug style of play, just not alone on a 4-mana artifact card. 

    Glass-Made Lovers: This was a bit too synergistic, it made enabling the second spell and Art strategies absolutely trivial from turn 1, and the milling was quite potent. I don't think this can stay at one-mana, though it does play really well as a concept.



    Soothing Lullaby: This card turned out to be really important and the main way to hold the fort in UB Art, but it's a bit swingy. It isn't that hard to tap the opponent's entire board on offense, but it's really struggling on defence. The ability loss also caused serious issues with some Avatar cards, Gobold in particular. It felt like it could cost more and maybe exchange the ability loss for an untapping option instead.

    Perspectives of Change: The draw ability felt nice and less difficult than I imagined to trigger, but the card isn't really addressed to any Blue deck outside of Temur maybe so it's struggling to find a home. The first ability felt like it was costing too much to be worth activating. We could just make it cheaper to activate, but I think it would work better if it was more similar to the red Winds of Change instead.

    Golden Gates Inquisitor: The card was a bit hard to activate and overall didn't feel like it was doing much. I think it would need to have a complete redesign in terms of costs and stats.



    Somber Poet: The card didn't feel impactful enough. Because your masterwork tends to be evasive and your opponent can choose not to block, it was very rare for the last ability to actually trigger. The concept might need to be changed so it's more synergistic with other black archetypes. For instance, "whenever a creature an opponent controls dies".

    Spilled Ink: This is supposed to be the one black directional spell for UB Art but it didn't feel impactful enough. the fact that it's an ambusher with a static ability was also quite awkward. Overall, I think it needs a "whenever an Art enters/leaves the battlefield" ability.

    Surge of Joy: The card was fine but didn't feel like it was accomplishing much either. It just felt like it was taking the slot of another more impactful card, though it played ok.




  • Siren Concerto: The first ability was pinging the opponent way slower than I anticipated. It was actually interesting to play with but the reward didn't feel like it was worth the complexity and wordiness. I almost never played with the last ability. The UB archetype needs a much stronger synergy with the graveyard than this.

    Arbiter of Serra: The card felt fine but sacrificing your creatures just didn't feel like it was fitting the playstyle of the archetype. When you wanted an Angel to sacrifice, it usually ended up the least valuable Angel at the table anyways. 


    CATEGORY V: Mistakes were made...



    Masked Contempt: The card is supposed to be directional for the RW weenies archetype but protecting my 1/1 tokens felt pointless and I would cast it just for the Scry 2 more often than not. RW is not the right archetype to aim that card at.

    Shrad, Avatar of Wit: This is not synergistic with what Blue is doing. It ended up stuck in my hand in 99% of cases. Blue needs a body that is playable on its own without the help of life strategies, like the White one.

    Icy Attitude: The GU masterwork archetypes ended up with too many protective options and other archetypes don't really want this. It got stuck in my hand most of the time. I think this needs to be a modal spell for UR discover instead, a counter spell that you can safely discover into since it would have another mode like a drawing ability maybe. WU second spell or UB art might also be interested by a counter spell, otherwise.



    Shaeban, Avatar of Dread: This is too difficult to enable, like most of the BG renewal cards. It's a 0/4 almost 100% of the time, and even when you get some life swings it's never that exciting. It probably needs to switch with the black one.

    Mask of Tragedy: This is too oppressive. Once the opponent is in top deck mode, either you make them discard the card they draw or sacrifice the creature if they cast it. There's no way to go around it other than destroying the mask itself. I tested a variant with paying life instead of discarding and it's not much better. It probably needs to be a bonus ability instead, like the green one, which was a lot of fun.

    Party Harder: UB Art is overflowing a bit with recursion options already, and this ended up a it too strong at one-mana. 

  • Partner of Frostvale: The rationale behind this was to synergise with both Discover and RW weenies by offering a new tokens hidden theme. That's why it gives double strike, so the weenies don't get over 2-power. This ended up completely broken, I'm afraid xD The 2/2 double strike wolf in particular is terrifying. I don't think this is salvageable.

    Street Masquerade: This was supposed to be a variation over Cavalcade Calamity. Because of all the creature synergies that can pump the tokens, it ended up way too strong in gameplay. This thing is terrifying.

    Imaginative Amateur: This was a little frustrating in the GU bicoloured deck as it would get stuck at +2/+2, absolutely broken in the pentacoloured deck, and would get completely out of control as soon as a second copy hit the battlefield. It's completely broken.




    Banded Missionaries: This was too hard to pull off, though it might be a suitable concept for a rare card but at 3-mana instead as accumulating 8 serran life is much more difficult than 6. In addition, it had a really problematic play pattern where, since it gave the serran life back to you, you could cast additional copies for free in the same turn, like a giant Burning-Tree Emissary. This slot needs something simpler.

    Sudden Blossom: It was too hard to enable and ended up being stuck in my hand most of the time, doing absolutely nothing. Cards that don't do anything unless you have Renewal enabled should be banned from the BG archetype.

    Effigy of Solace: It was too hard to play since you often need to cast spells to create life swings and, whenever I managed to pull it off, it was usually a 5/5 for 4, which was not worth the trouble. Same conclusion as Sudden Blossom immediately above.

    Hieromantic Trap: The play pattern was interesting but it wasn't synergistic enough with any deck that it was worth considering, even as a hate card. On the other hand, the UB deck could use a way to avoid milling itself, so maybe that slot needs to focus on graveyard hate instead.

    ___

    Alright, that's it for today! I'll come back later to talk about some commons and general feedback on the set as a whole and archetypes.
  • COMMONS OF INTEREST:



    Angelic Hopebringer: This is the only card in the RW archetype that actually pumps the weenies and, as feared, it's quite un-synergistic as it can make your creatures pass the threshold of 2-power and prevent them from triggering your pay-offs. The problem is likely due to the whole archetype, honestly, more than this specific card.

    Silence Heretics: It actually played really well, and there's a surprising amount of +1/+1 counters synergies going around in WB Clerics and Angels. But it felt like this wasn't the correct reward for the archetype, it became pretty clear during playtesting that WB was begging to interact more with life synergies, so the rider on this card should probably be some kind of draining effect instead. 

    Violent Pulsion: The more I play with this card, the more I realise it's a bit too much for common. It needs to be toned down.

    Winter Veil: This card is fun to play with but that's not really what the RG archetype is trying to do in actual play (it's more synergistic with Art strategies) so I think it's sending the wrong signal during deck building. 

    Recovering Landscape: The BR suicide aggro archetype frankly doesn't need that much help, and the other life archetypes don't really care about this card. It just feels like a worst Evolving Wilds. It's still an important effect because the set does encourage 3-colours decks a bit, but I think it can be more relevant.
  • edited April 2021

    GENERAL FEEDBACK AND ARCHETYPES —


    GENERAL —

    • All the ally-coloured decks felt too directional and would benefit from clearer side strategies available. The enemy decks were fine since they had their own strategies on top of two paths they could take from the corresponding ally decks.
    • Pump spells are having a hard time finding a home. Especially the common reprints like Leap of Faith and Sure Strike (one of them probably needs to be changed). We need to dig a place for them by increasing their synergy with one or more archetypes.

    WU(R) Second spell —

    • The archetype played nicely, but it's not as fun as the UR discover one. It could use more mechanical focus. It had some interesting synergies with tokens, which could be its side theme.
    • The idea of having the signature trigger work exclusively if the spell was the second to be cast this turn played weird. I still don't want storm effects that trigger every time you cast a spell beyond your first, but it needs to trigger as long as it's not the first.
    • The archetype needs a dedicated 2-mana creature at uncommon
    • The archetype has too many cheap White instants at common. In particular, Safety practices, Fortuitous Invitation and Leap of Faith aren't synergistic enough with other decks and WU can't play them all, so they would end up piling up at the end of each draft.

    UB(G) Art tribal —

    • The archetype could use more ways to gain life. A lifelink creature in particular could beneficial to Black in general.
    • The archetype was filling graveyards very quickly, it already has some decent mill potential and is begging for more graveyard pay-offs. This should definitely be its side theme, whether it's milling or reanimation.
    • Green is missing Art creatures at uncommon. In addition, its uncommon signals are too weak to tempt you into splashing.
    • The "leave the battlefield trigger" feels weird, as it's often not relevant during death by combat and can feel overwhelming when creatures blink. ETB triggers are already supporting the recursive strategy just fine, so maybe the signature trigger of Arts need to explore something else. For instance, "Whenever CARDNAME or another Art your control enters the battlefield or attacks" could increase the synergy with all the decks around it, including Masterwork.
    • The archetype has too many recursion options. Because it's kind of the only archetype that wants those cards, they would end up piling at the end of each draft. In particular, Winter Veil and Party Harder felt like overshot as-fan wise.

    BR(W) Suicide aggro —

    • The archetype was overflowing with options, to the point where it might actually be a bit too easy to pay life very turn.
    • The archetype felt like it could use an edict effect (especially since Mask of Tragedy was too broken to be part of the actual set.)
    • The archetype needs a 4-mana creature option at uncommon.
    • The archetype seems to have the best pump spell and equipment synergies thanks to cards like Wild Influence, Vicious Influence and Juggling Knife, which were all very playable commons. This should be taken into consideration for its side theme.

    RG(U) Even life —

    • The archetype is still searching its balance and what it want to do. It seems to have the best ramp synergy, which should probably be taken into consideration for its side theme.
    • The archetype feels like it depends too much on cards from other archetypes to control its life total. It can do it, but it would benefit from a couple very directional card clearly aimed at it that gained/lose life.
    • The archetype was struggling a bit power wise, it could use a bit of a boost.
    • The archetype could use some card advantage, or at least card filtering

    GW(B) Serran life —

    • This archetype seems to naturally produce a lot of +1/+1 counters, which made be its side theme.
    • The archetype has too many 3-mana option, they would benefit from being more spread out on the mana curve.

    WB Angels & Clerics —

    • The archetype felt like it was producing a reasonable enough of +1/+1 counters but less than the GW archetype so it should probably leave this design space to feel more distinct. It also had a decent amount of tokens, but less than WU.
    • The archetype clearly had some strong serran life synergies because of all the Angels and Cleric cards to the point where it clearly needs to focus more on it. I think it should get priority on "Pay N serran life" effects over the GW archetype to help differentiate them. It also worked great with draining effects.
    • The archetype lacks noncreature options.

    UR Discover —

    • The archetype is a lot of fun to play but its mechanical focus feels like it could be tightened. The element of surprise in particular is what makes the salt of it, it might want to double-down on instant-speed interactions.
    • The archetype felt like it was missing some cards you always wanted to discover. Modal spells may help with that.
    • The directional pay-offs of the archetype felt a bit crowded at 3-mana and would benefit for having more diverse mana values.

    BG Renewal —

    • The archetype felt really poor. The pay-offs cards were stuck in my hand most of the time doing literally nothing. Comboing was super hard and generally resulted in disappointing rewards.
    • Cards that don't do anything unless a life swing happened should be banned entirely. We should stick to added bonuses on already playable cards.
    • The graveyard synergy doesn't feel like it belongs there.
    • The archetype needs a directional 2-mana card at uncommon.

    RW Weenies —

      • The archetype felt completely broken to the point where it was difficult to get more information on it.
      • The "power 2 or less" focus led to a lot of awkward designs to avoid pumping the creatures' power, which would have been a nonbo. Now that we have the term "mana value" instead of "converted mana cost", it might be a good idea to reconsider how the whole archetype works, and incorporate more pump spells synergies.

      GU Masterwork —

      • The two-coloured version of the archetype was disappointing and didn't do much. It needs a power boost.
      • The fact that both the flying and trample keywords, which are the two most desirable abilities in this archetype, were stuck on 5-mana commons was a problem. At least one of them needs to be more accessible, likely through an uncommon.
      • The archetype has too many protective options for the masterwork, it cannot play them all and they would end up piling up at the end of a draft as they're not particularly synergistic with other archetypes.
      • The masterwork mechanic felt like it wasn't synergistic enough with other archetypes around it, even though it has the potential to be.
      • The fact that Arts and Artists had close to no interactions felt extra weird. Having the Art tribal deck care about attacking could help with that. We might also consider transforming the Masterwork into an Art.
      • The pentacoloured version of the deck was a lot of fun and it was surprisingly easy to fix the mana considering I didn't add bilands yet. It could use more serran life synergies for colour fixing purposes.

    • Currently, I only have two suggestions right now, but I'll try to come up with more in the future:
      - Maybe WU could also have cards that also care if a spell was your first spell that you cast each turn?
      - You said that suicide aggro had too many options to pay life, and BG renewal felt really poor. Maybe the effects that allow you to pay life should require you to pay more life? This may not reduce the options that BR aggro has, but it would reduce the number of times that the deck could pay life without worrying about their life total, and can also help BG meet the 3 life threshold easier.
    • Maybe for the WB archetype, there could be a card that's something like Sorin's Thirst except for serran life.
    • @feralitator @SpellPiper2213

      Oh wow, I can't believe someone actually read though this, to be honest XD I was going to cut it into more digest pieces a bit later, thanks for getting into it! =D

      Feralitor: I'm lukewarm about the first spell idea for two reasons. First, I'd like the archetypes to feel as recognisable as possible, and caring about the first spell will inevitably make caring about the second spell less identifiable as the main focus of the archetype. In addition, I've tried the Dawn mechanic on Legends of Runeterra and I really dislike how it plays. There's no difficulty in casting your first spell each turn so it felt really weird to get a bonus for that, in my opinion.

      That's a good reasoning on the BG/BR synergy, we can definitely try that ^^ But yeah, I think the cards that didn't do anything if no life was gained/lost were a mistake at a more fundamental level and should be avoided on top of trying to make the threshold a bit easier to meet.

      SpellPiper2213: Totally, we have that at common, it's called Angelic Kiss and it's definitely a defining card for the set! I originally wanted the WB archetype to stay clear from that theme, but now that I've tested it I think it's just too deep into it to ignore. We're going to have to try to be original with the way we care about it instead, I suppose.

    • Can I be honest? I like +1/+1 counters in WB. 
    • edited April 2021
      @FourEyesIsAFish

      WB and GW were the two decks where I felt like there was some strong +1/+1 counters synergies going on naturally so it could definitely be an option. I do think that GW might be the better option for a few reasons though:
      • The ally coloured archetypes are in need of a bit more diversity. Right now, if you draft green/white, the deck that focuses on serran life synergies is kind of the only option. This is problematic because once you've decided to go with that colour combination, there aren't that many choices left, there's usually a best answer in the pack. On the other hand, WB has the Angel/Clerics synergies but you still have to balance the BRW Aggro synergies and GWB Serran life synergies that also appear in this combination, so you have the options of building different kind of WB decks already.
      • There were a bit more +1/+1 counters already happening naturally in GW than WB.
      • The other green archetypes have better synergies with +1/+1 counters than the other black archetypes. In particular, +1/+1 counters synergies would be very appreciated by the GU masterwork and RG midrange archetypes. 
    • Maybe there could be a white enchantment or something that can give out +1/+1 counters based on serran life.
    • edited April 2021
      @SpellPiper2213

      Totally, that sounds like good synergy. I think I know where to put this, when I tested Inspiring Archpriest I found it a bit math-intensive because the +1/+1 effect had to be imagined in your head on top of everything that was happening on the battlefield. So I think it might be interesting to try something like this instead: (before/after)

       

      I would also be interested in having something similar in Green, but that's 100% disconnected from serran life this time. Just so it's an option to severely fork out of the serran life theme in GW if you want it.

      And at common... God, I think I have put this card in and out of the file like 10 times but I had this a while ago: 

    • edited April 2021
      Before I get into the topic of secondary ally themes, I wanted to tackle two systemic issues I felt during the playtest and are somewhat connected.

      1) My initial idea was that the Art and masterwork themes were going to interact through recursion effects. Masterwork is mainly an ETB ability so that was supposed to be the main synergy where they cross in blue. Unfortunately, this interaction is almost never relevant in gameplay. It feels weird to have artists and art creatures that don't synergise.

      2) The signature trigger of the Art theme (Whenever CARDNAME or another Art you control enters or leaves the battlefield) feels a little weird in gameplay. The "leaves the battlefield" often goes to waste when the creature dies in combat and the effect isn't that relevant post-combat. On the other hand, it's a little intense when you blink a creature as you often get half a dozen triggers firing off at the same time.

      I had two ideas to try to address those issues. We could go with one or the other but I figured we might as well try both and see if they work:

      1) Change the "leave the battlefield" part of the Art trigger to something different, more synergistic with masterwork and other archetypes around UB. I was thinking "Whenever CARDNAME or another Art you control enters the battlefield or attacks and isn't blocked."

       

      2) Make the masterwork an Art. It's actually a bit tricky to make that work in the reminder text without being too lengthy so I rewrote it from scratch, tell me if you think it's too imprecise (more specifically, it needs to convey that it doesn't target, the creature is chosen, so if you choose itself it will enter the battlefield as an Art and masterwork, and it needs to convey that it's only an Art as long as it's your masterwork.)

    This discussion has been closed.