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Renaissance Set — Creative Design
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Isn't Aetherworks Marvel banned in Standard?
Whoops! I don't usually play Standard, so I guess I was a bit out of the loop on that one XD
No problem, I actually had to look to make sure because I don't either! XD
Yes, it is banned, thank goodness.
Also good HOU prerelease to everyone who attends today! =D
I still think it requires too much cards creating psylian life to work without a dedicated mechanic to giving psylian life. Here's a try (didn't playtest it yet):
Heartlink (Prevent X combat damage that creature would deal: You gain X psylian life.)
Although, I don't want our opinions to sway the decision.
It is quite odd x) But it would be like the -1/-1 counters of our set, a nice twist to a core concept of the game ^^
Here's what I liked about it so far:
- It makes missing a land drop in the early game less frustrating.
- Being able to interact with it through damage makes it less frustrating for the opponent than Energy for instance.
- It creates a lot of tension, you become very protective of your life total when you have some psylian life and it makes taking a 1-damage or 2-damage hit much more annoying.
- The fear of losing psy life entices you to use it for mana quickly instead of having enough to cast a huge spell, while still letting you the choice between the two options.
- I felt like it wasn't worth storing it, and making mana was much more useful than having more life until very late in the game. So I didn't feel it dragged the game longer. I'm still unsure if an agressive strategy would be viable with a life gain mechanic in the set though.
- It felt intuitive. I grabbed a second die for my life total and the rest went smoothly. Online, I used the poison counters slot to separate the two kinds of life.
- I cared more about my life total than usual but it was still not strong enough that it would become the focus of the game. I think that's the right amount of attention that life should have in a Life-matters set.
- There is some unusual design space. It gives a different value to cards you've seen before. For instance, I first put Sign in Blood ( http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=390682 ) in my WB testing deck and realized it made paying two life a much worse drawback than it usually if for this card. On the other hand, a card like Torment of Venom ( http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=431365 ) cast on an opponent with psylian life now had slightly better chances to force the discard or sacrifice option out of that opponent.
- It was quite easy to pull out some fun combos to get a turn ahead in the game.
- It played amazing with cards caring about life loss (I actually playtested a card with unkeyworded Outburst) because you can pay it at any time for the sole purpose of losing life.
Alright, so we've had two tests supportive of psylian life. I think it's a go!
On a completely unrelated note, let's talk about Muses. How many are there? Where do they come from? Are they like gods, or closer to phenomena? What should the mechanical similarity between them be? What is their objective? Why have they only started tweaking emotions now?
Here are my proposed answers:
1. There are innumerable Muses, each influencing a different emotion.
2. They are part of the fabric of the plane itself. (If the Gatewatch comes, maybe Nissa can use their power?)
3. See above.
4-6. This needs some further contemplation XD
1. We need at least enough muses to represent our most base emotions and feelings.
2. I propose that they are literally a physical manifestation of emotion, stockpiled over ages of adults being emotionless, and are "overflowing." (Gives us a lore opportunity.)
3. If they are phenomena, they're definitely up there in terms of power.
4. Has yet to be identified. We still need to iron out our base mechanics stuff.
5. My answer to number two suggests that they don't have one. They're just aimless and like a sentient force.
6. See number two.
Good answers. I like your response to #2. However, in response to your #1 answer, I think that the Muses should be like the kami of Kamigawa; that is, infinite, just like emotions themselves.
Maybe instead of infinite Muses, we have the primary Muses that embody the common and easily explained emotions, and they have children (fitting into the lore) that are essentially all of the other emotions, created by relationships (or something) between and among the Muses.
On the psylian-life making mechanic:
Ok, if no one else felt the need of a psylian-life-making mechanic, let's drop it for now. I may bring it back again during the design and development phases if we struggle making enough psylian producers ^^
On muses:
- I liked the idea of the Muses being powerful creatures and having innumerable Muses would prevent us from doing that, so from a design perspective I'd rather do a limited number of them to have an exciting cycle of Muse cards. @syntheticreign's suggestion is interesting though, but would we be able to show that the random muses exist if they don't have their own dedicated card?
- For @MagicChess' version, I fear having them being part of the fabric of the plane may give them a feel a bit too close to Theros gods? Also, it means they aren't the disruptive factor that will start the story, they would be more like a lore background. For @Lujikul's version, I find it interesting to see them as the product of confined emotion because it gives us a lot of grips storywise, and I like how it creates a theme around adulthood vs. childhood.
- I'd rather have them feel either as diferent from Gods as possible, or them being actual Gods, but making them God-like beings without the God subtype would make me feel uncomfortable.
- Mechanically, I don't have any fully-formed idea yet, but I picture them as a strong Mythic Rare cards cycle that share an original identity. Like the Gods, but without the mechanical tricks specific to Gods.
- Haha, a good question. I think it would be more interesting for the story if they end up being evil?
- Maybe they just appeared on the plane? Maybe someone is corrupting them? Maybe they are actually good and they try to fight back the true evil hidden on this plane with their emotion powers?
____________________
I feel the set is almost ready to go from Creative to the actual Design phase where we just start making a billion cards and fill the design skeleton. What I think we should probably do before that is:
- Maybe another keyworded mechanic. Virtuoso + Discover is a bit light, though we have psylian life as an additional mechanic, and we alreay covered both the Awe factor and the visually interesting aspect of the set. Additional keywords can be added during Design though, once we have a better understanding of what the archetypes need.
- Creating a tiny bit more of story. What we're doing right now with the Muses is very important to give the tone of the set, we should probably wait until this conversation ends with a small story concept before going to actual Design. We're still a little light on tropes also.
- We should start talking about the archetypes. Based on what we know, what game plans would be interesting for the set. Enchantment-matters has been discussed for the set mechanical focus, maybe it can actually become a two-colour archetype for instance?
Muses
Yes, I was driving at something similar to what @syntheticreign was saying, but instead of "children" per se, there are just a whole bunch of Muses, with a few main ones. On the "fabric of the plane" thing, yeah, I guess that might be too similar to gods. I definitely don't want Muses to be gods; I think this should be a godless plane.
Okay, so for the Muses' objective, we have three different proposals: First, that they're evil/corrupted/controlled, second, that they're good and are trying to fight an evil, and third, that they have no specific objective, but are instead "overflowing" due to the lack of creativity among the denizens of the plane for the past few generations. I personally like the second and third options most. The first option is a little to reminiscent of Emrakul, and I feel like there should be a deeper antagonistic purpose than just manipulating emotions. Restoring creativity to a world doesn't feel evil to me XD
Mechanically, I think we need to wait a bit longer until we've decided exactly what the Muses are and do. For our final mechanic, we really need an emotions mechanic to depict the influence of the Muses. If we do come up with one, maybe the Muses could be a cycle of creatures using that mechanic.
New mechanic
I'll have to think about this one, but it should definitely be an emotion mechanic. We have art, exploration, and life-matters things already, so the three themes left are, in order of importance: emotions, science/technology, and religion. And that segues us into.....
Archetypes and Tropes
Science/technology and religion are two things that I think we can successfully include and elaborate on without them having a specific mechanic. I definitely like enchantment-matters as a subtheme.
As for game strategies and decks, I think that Discover opens up possibilities in UG with Amonkhet's mana ramp in those colors, and maybe even could be incorporated into Temur Energy (the vestige of Temur Aetherworks). However, we shouldn't make such judgements too soon, because we are still missing a mechanic and haven't made any actual cards yet.
Story
Here's what we have so far:
- An archipelago with previously united, but now isolated islands
- Confined emotions and a lack of creativity in the people
- Muses that are influencing people's emotions, and bringing about a return to creativity
- Great art comes to life
- Other lands are rediscovered
But that's pretty much it. We need to think of some more basic themes, then move on to things that are a little more specific, like characters, Planeswalkers, and other subthemes. A couple questions we need to answer:
- Why did creativity go away?
- Was it because of a magical alteration to the plane, Bolas-style?
- Was it because of something more mundane, like a conquerer dividing the islands and ruling with an iron fist?
- Was it an unintended magical phenomenon?
- Who are the villains?
- Bolas? I hope not XD Anyway, we'll have to wait and see if he dies in HOD, though I doubt it.
- A different malevolent Planeswalker?
- Are the Muses evil? Are they corrupted by somebody/thing?
- What Planewalkers come to the plane? The Gatewatch? Somebody else?
Let's get to thinking about this stuff, particularly the archetypes, story, and new mechanic.
I think we definitely need to focus on the science and religion aspects, as they were huge in the Renaissance, and those could both feed nicely into a small enchantments-matter sub-theme.
I love creative design in general, so I would love to work on the both the story and flavorful mechanic tie-ins. In terms of story currently, I think it would be cool if we explored the Muses having disappeared for a time, and that is what caused the creativity to fade. Perhaps they have a cyclic presence, where they stay for a certain amount of time, almost giving away emotions as though they were an expendable resource. Then, they retreat to isolation to essentially "recharge" (something that would leave tons of room for a follow-up set, with a "Recharge" mechanic). Then we don't have to worry about an embodiment of evil having affected the plane, but rather the absence of the Muses for an extended period of time. This would also feed into the "Overflow" idea for a mechanic, showing the return of the Muses from their own meditative exile.
Does it NEED one though? I understand the appeal of one, but at the same time I feel like that's fairly generic. Good guys vs bad guys, that kind of stuff. What if the the evil was solely in the mystery of the Muses? Like if they're so powerful, where do they go for several centuries at a time to recharge? They're so shrouded in mystery, I feel like we could explore that mystery rather than focus on some evil entity. Maybe the "bad guy" in this set is simply the lack of creativity.
Personally, I LOVE stories with no real antagonist, but I think that a Magic set needs some sort of driving factor other than the mysteriousness of the Muses and innovation. On the other hand, look at Kaladesh: the whole set had no proven antagonist yet, although the Consulate was getting a little edgy. Then again, it was just leading up to Aether Revolt, where Tezzeret becomes the baddie.
I think that if we could pull it off without an antagonist, it would be awesome, and pretty much unprecedented in Magic's history XD. However, it would be really hard, because the set would have no direction. If we plan to make it into a block, we could look at Shadows and Kaladesh, because they had no concrete antagonist but were leading up to one in the next set.
I personally think we could pull it off. Maybe for the second (hypothetical) set, we can explore why the Muses have to leave for centuries at a time to recharge. Maybe they get their power from something or someone else, and people start to realize that. Idk, there's a lot of opportunity, I just think that with a set that focuses on life gain and introduces a whole new mechanic with Psy life, it shouldn't be bound to the standard "good guy(s) vs bad guy(s)" model.
The first two are the lady's familiars! (We're working on a land for the archetype as well.)
Edit: Fixed the link to Audacious Squibble!