MTG Cardsmith Community Forums
Renaissance Italy Themed Set Design
This discussion has been closed.
Howdy, Stranger!
It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!
It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!
Comments
http://chichapie.deviantart.com/gallery/
It's an artist I really like (you can see in my card gallery I've been using a lot of art from him recently), he's drawing a lot of antropomorphized animals and it happens that he draws them in a Renaissance-compatible universe. So maybe if we look for antropomorphized animals we can actually make something out of the theme.
@modnation675, I love the idea behind your nightmare/circus themed set. I would definitely be up for collaborating on that, and honestly I feel like you guys and @ningyounk have already contributed more than enough to be considered parts of the set design team for this idea if it was to continue. I wonder if there was a way the two ideas could be merged? Even though that is a cool idea though, the plan my brain is automatically defaulting to is a day and night situation similar to that of Innistrad and even Lorwyn/Shadowmoor. However, the idea would be unique in a way due to its historical-based time period being quite different along with the anthropomorphized animals.
I'll definitely keep you posted on that set. Just make sure to invite us if you try something like it. Right now we've been preparing some mechanics to use for the set as well as scouring for artwork. That way we won't run out suddenly.
In terms of the painter mechanic, I like it in theory. Although I think we need to find a better way of doing it and overcoming some unduly exploits. I'm thinking of something similar to Golem tribal as a basic reference.
As for the cultured animals idea, yeah it would be an all in idea as you've suggested. But it's a nice idea to fall back on and allows you to keep versions of your cards.
Here's a rough concept illustration of what it would look like:
Here is an example of something we could do with the Painter mechanic and the new art that @ningyounk found. Could definitely be enhanced flavor-wise and balance-wise but I like the general idea. I also used the wedges that @ningyounk outlined earlier.
You could try searching specific cities/areas. Firenze/Florence, Siena, Vinci, Toscana, etc
haven't tried it myself but idk
Since we're making animal cards, may I ask how cute of a tech card this is? XD
@ningyounk, I'm not so sure about the pencil&paper thing. It's too complicated and irregular, though an interesting idea. The only conceivable way to make it work that I can think of is the following: {condition}: Sculpt a creature with {keyword ability OR power {something} and toughness {something}.
A sculpted creature, in this sense, is a blank creature that you give power, toughness, and abilities by sculpting.
Our main concern with painter is if it develops similarly to Jade Golems in Hearthstone. As well as possible obscure designs in terms of representing aspects.
The counter idea you just mentioned is the epitome of that concern.
- The Jade Golem mechanic, for those who don't know, comes on certain creatures of Hearthstone that says "Summon a Jade Golem". It's start as a 1/1 but everytime you summon a Jade Golem, it has +1/+1 compared to the last Jade Golem you summoned. I don't see at all how this relates to Painter so I can't understand how there are similar design issues between them?
- On the obscure representing aspects, I think how they would be represented is pretty clear: a piece of paper written "Flying" on it is an ability counter that gives flying to a creature. I truly don't understand the problem O.o
For your example, it would be the following...
"Put a flight counter on target creature. That creature has flying for as long as it has a flight counter on it."
Well yes, it's roughly the same thing, except the already existing way of doing this is terribly rigid and lengthy. Basically, label counters would have a rule attached to them saying that whatever is written on them is part of the rules text of the permanent they are on (technically they don't even have to be called "counters"). The point is that you get to write your own counters to feel like an artist. The "free" aspect is the focal interest of this idea.
It's actually closer to a way of overriding the memory issue for "Target creature gains flying. (This lasts indefinitely)", as simple as that. But the physcial aspect of it make the mechanic flashy and interesting (and opens weird design space out of counters manipulation).
It also fixes one of the issues of mono-white without being OP.
Inspired by the slipping trances of the following songs...
Bad Suns - Cardiac Arrest (+ WoodysProduce Remix or Math Bishop Remix)
Bad Suns - Salt
Bad Suns - Sleep Paralysis
I have a habit of collecting artwork, which may help in this case.
I think that ___ counters are a great way to approach Sculpt. We would need to come up with names for each type of counter Flight Counters give flying, but what would a first strike counter be called? Or Deathtouch counters?
And then, we need to think about the mechanic itself. I think that sculpted creatures start in the command zone (or something like that) as 0/0s with no abilities. Then you can put +1/+1 counters on them and give them abilities. For example, a card might have the following:
Sculpt - {condition}: Put a +1/+1 counter on a sculpted creature you control.
This could be "Put a flight counter on target sculpted creature you control" as well.
Also, I think the creation of some sort of dropbox or google drive for artwork would be awesome. When @ningyounk and I worked together on Zocarus, the creation of a shared drive allowed us a lot of design collaboration that worked very well.
Finally, with regards to the written counters idea, I still prefer @ningyounk 's original idea as I think it fits the best flavorfully and allows for a lot of cool design space along with making the set unique.
For the cards I uploaded, I just wanted to demonstrate some artistic choices to see if they suited the style for your set. (In your opinions as a group.)
That and I thought they would show some interesting ideas to inspire different cards.
As for the Dropbox or Google Drive, it would be great if one of the original team members can start it so that it's able to be accessed easily.
In terms of counters, I agree that the idea you state is more effective. I'd just like to find a way that refers to them by a different term than a token. But that could be ill advised due to personal opinion. As such, I give each of you the final say on that to say the least.
On the command zone thing, that's very flashy as well (and just as complicated), I would not mix the two in the same set.
On flavour, why restricting this to sculpting? They could as well be painted? I think it works best with a generic flavour, like they're inspired by a beautiful piece of art. Their mind have been opened by the contemplation of a beautiful painting / sculpture / dance / song / monument and now they get to do more stuff XD
____________________
Anyway, given the state of the creative phase, how about an actual brainstorming? We're already discussing details when we don't even know what the set is really about ^^
Let's follow dear Mark's Rosewater's advice and follow some steps: http://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/making-magic/nuts-bolts-three-stages-design-2015-03-30
The very first thing we have to do is create the VISION for the set. What the set is about? It's a renaissance set. Based on this, what are all the ideas that come to your mind?
I'll start:
- Artist mechanic using a pen (draw your creature, write stuff on tokens,...)
- Artist mechanic that care about how the cards are physically positionned (do they touch each other, do they form pretty flowers, squares,...)
- Set about colours, because colours are pretty, and you can mix them
- Themes that Renaissance makes me think about: art, science, humanism, glory, religion, exploration, warfare, conquests, painting, philantropy, sculptures, poetry, music, antiquity, navigation, assassins, renewal/rediscovery, astronomy, medecine, archaeology, cartography, alchemy, geography, christianism, angels demons, History, language, protestantism, litterature
- People, places, famous paintings that Renaissance makes me think about: Europe, Italy, France, Spain, Germany, the Sistine Chapel, the Creation of Adam, the Vitruvian man, Michel Angelo, Claudio Monteverdi, Raphaelo, the Prince of Machiavel, Leonardo Da Vinci, De Medicis, Donatello
"You have up to seven words. Describe your set. Can you do it?
Kaladesh: Feel like an optimistic aetherpunk inventor
Shadows of Innistrad: Insanity engulfs a Gothic horror plane
Battle for Zendikar: Stop the alien Eldrazi from destroying Zendikar"
Although, we do like to study various academic fields including some art forms. Generally Computer Science and Math are our most studied in terms of education. Aside from that though we have a fond fascination with psychology and anatomy. As such most of our cards have a philosophical message or an expression of psychology.
If we're going to describe the set, we must first determine if we're doing the cultured animals aspect. This has a major impact on the theme and description.
I think we should use Strawpoll to start some votes on topics so we have a definite answer on the overall opinions of topics. (Easier to reference as the comments get higher in quantity!)
The leader of the set design, shall also setup a Dropbox or Google Drive for the group. (We'll still make decisions as a group!)
Which of you want to be the leader/manager in this regard? (Simply who sets up the storage account.)
- an ART folder (you may separate the lands and artefact arts from the creatures)
- a CARD folder with Early designs, Work in Progress and Finished cards
- a DESIGN SKELETON Google Sheet to know what holes need to be filled in the set (that's for much later though)
- a MECHANICS Google Doc for discussing
- a STORY Google Doc for discussing
Also, if this contest is indeed turning into the Creative & Design for a set, we may want to move to another part of the forum?