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Need advice on how to template two custom mechanics
Hello everyone 
I've picked up an old set idea of mine and trying to refine it, but I stumble on how to template two of the set mechanics
I'd be super interested in any advice on how to do that properly, if you have some 
FIRST MECHANIC:
Malevolent — Whenever an opponent or a target an opponent controls becomes the target of a spell you control, [EFFECT].
Malevolent is an ability word with a controlling feel that rewards you for targeting your opponents or their stuff. But I have multiple problems with how to template it:
- How do I name "your opponent's stuff" in game terms? I tried "a target an opponent controls" but the repetition of the word target sounds very weird to me. Is there an official word in rules terms to say "something"?
- Does this trigger correctly off counterpells, or reanimating spells targeting creatures in your opponent's graveyard for instance?
- Is there a way to shorten it? This is a bit long especially considering I still have to put the effect in there.
SECOND MECHANIC:
Damocles {cost} ({2}: Exile this card in Damocles from your hand. You may pay {cost} to cast it from Damocles any time you could cast it from your hand.)
My issues with the current templating are:
- Should the first part read more like Morph? E.g: You may exile this card from your hand for {2]
- Do I have to say that you exile the card "In Damocles"? Does that even mean anything?
- Do I have to specify "As long as CARDNAME was exiled with Damocles" for the second part?
- Is the "any time you could cast it from your hand" necessary ruleswise?
- What is the reminder card type supposed to be anyway? XD Morph reminder cards are Creatures, but for this I have no clue >.<
If you have any opinion on this, I'd be super happy to hear it!
Thanks! =D
I've picked up an old set idea of mine and trying to refine it, but I stumble on how to template two of the set mechanics
I'd be super interested in any advice on how to do that properly, if you have some FIRST MECHANIC:
Malevolent — Whenever an opponent or a target an opponent controls becomes the target of a spell you control, [EFFECT].
Malevolent is an ability word with a controlling feel that rewards you for targeting your opponents or their stuff. But I have multiple problems with how to template it:
- How do I name "your opponent's stuff" in game terms? I tried "a target an opponent controls" but the repetition of the word target sounds very weird to me. Is there an official word in rules terms to say "something"?
- Does this trigger correctly off counterpells, or reanimating spells targeting creatures in your opponent's graveyard for instance?
- Is there a way to shorten it? This is a bit long especially considering I still have to put the effect in there.
SECOND MECHANIC:
Damocles {cost} ({2}: Exile this card in Damocles from your hand. You may pay {cost} to cast it from Damocles any time you could cast it from your hand.)
My issues with the current templating are:
- Should the first part read more like Morph? E.g: You may exile this card from your hand for {2]
- Do I have to say that you exile the card "In Damocles"? Does that even mean anything?
- Do I have to specify "As long as CARDNAME was exiled with Damocles" for the second part?
- Is the "any time you could cast it from your hand" necessary ruleswise?
- What is the reminder card type supposed to be anyway? XD Morph reminder cards are Creatures, but for this I have no clue >.<
If you have any opinion on this, I'd be super happy to hear it!
Thanks! =D
This discussion has been closed.
Comments
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Q1: How do I name "your opponent's stuff" in game terms? I tried "a target an opponent controls" but the repetition of the word target sounds very weird to me. Is there an official word in rules terms to say "something"?
Answer: No, the closest there is would be in reference to the word "source". But that isn't applicable here.
Q2: Does this trigger correctly off counterpells, or reanimating spells targeting creatures in your opponent's graveyard for instance?
Answer: This and your version work for counterspells. But neither work on cards in graveyards as they aren't controlled, as such it requires an additional clause. This would make the ability longer though.
--> If you want it tough, I can work on it with you afterwards.
Q3: Is there a way to shorten it? This is a bit long especially considering I still have to put the effect in there.
Answer: No, not as long as you want it to do all the things you want.
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Edit: Next comment will be on Damocles!
If you want the cards to be face down, you will have to do the following instead.
Damocles {cost} (You may exile this card from your hand face down with your Damocles pile for {2}. You may look at cards in your Damocles pile and you may cast spells from your Damocles pile for their Damocles cost.)
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Q1: Should the first part read more like Morph? E.g: You may exile this card from your hand for {2].
Answer: Sort of, although it looks like how I wrote it above.
Q2: Do I have to say that you exile the card "In Damocles"? Does that even mean anything?
Answer: No, but I'd recommend exiling the cards in a pile within exile for convenience sake and because it lets some rules be more streamlined. I've shown how to do this above.
Q3: Do I have to specify "As long as CARDNAME was exiled with Damocles" for the second part?
Answer: Not if you're following the pile idea. This is due to the notion that all cards in the pile can, meaning it isn't necessary.
Q4: Is the "any time you could cast it from your hand" necessary ruleswise?
Answer: No, since the card has to be cast at it's own speed. Unless an effect says otherwise.
Q5: What is the reminder card type supposed to be anyway? Morph reminder cards are Creatures, but for this I have no clue.
Answer: If you follow our Damocles pile idea, write "Exiled Pile".
Bonus: On the token card you should write the following in the reminder text. (Assuming you did the pile idea!)
Answer: You may look at cards in your Damocles pile and you may cast them for their Damocles cost.
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I wouldn't mind working with you to get the other ability to your liking, so I'll be working on that at the moment.
_________
Malevolent — Whenever a spell you control targets an opponent or an object you don't control, [EFFECT].
--> It appears that, according to comprehensive rules, the term for "source" in the context of being targeted is "object" which I used. This means Malevolent can trigger off of every kind of possible target except zones. I also decided to use "you don't control" instead of "an opponent controls" because it was really important that it triggered off of reanimation spells targeting cards in your opponent's graveyard, because of the mechanical themes in the set. This does mean that Malevolent triggers when you target your teammates's stuff in multiplayer which is weird for a mechanic called "malevolent" but neither the flavour nor the name of the mechanic is locked in yet so it's not a big deal.
_________
Damocles {cost} (You may exile this card face-down from your hand for {2}. You may look at it and cast it for its Damocles cost.)
--> I really stuck close to the Morph reminder text this time that uses the lose nature of reminder text to take some useful shortcuts and just assume players will get the point. The good thing is that the reminder card allows me to explain the rules a little more thoroughly without taking more words. In the end, I didn't use a pile because it's apparently inherent to the rules of face-down cards in exile, but it will be mentioned on the reminder card. Following another of your advice, I added "You may look at it" because the rules clearly forbid you to do it otherwise apparently.
Reminder Card:
(name) Damocles
(type) Pile of cards exiled with Damocles
(rules text) Always keep the cards you exiled with Damocles in a separate pile. You may use this reminder card to cover them.
You may look at those cards at any time. You may cast them for their Damocles cost any time you could normally cast them from your hand.
Once again, thanks a lot for your help =D
It's shorter and it's worded like "Heroic" was, which I think is appropriate since it immediately states that it's triggering from you targeting something. Just a thought.
You may need to add "spells" as well to make it function as intended. I don't know if "cards" gets around that particular wording.
http://forums.mtgcardsmith.com/discussion/comment/72115/#Comment_72115
It was very clean, didn't impact other rulings, and it had fantastic functionality.
On Malevolent: I like the Heroic inspiration a lot ^^ But having to do a list brings back the problem of length and risk of missing certain kind of targets like spells (I would love this to trigger off of counterspells as it will have a strong rule to play in Blue). This is why I liked the new version with "object" a little above.
On Damocles: Cache is quite clean indeed! Damocles works slightly differently because it has the alternative cost, which makes it forcefully a bit longer to template. It's a feature I don't want to get rid off because Damocles will be a central mechanic in the set for flavour reasons and will therefore be featured in all five colours equally. This means I need a large design space, and the alternative cost is a way to use those cards in funky ways. I think the last version of Damocles was quite close to it, I'll try mixing them.
Latest version of Damocles:
Damocles {cost} (You may exile this card face-down from your hand for {2}. You may look at it and cast it for its Damocles cost.)
Cache:
Cache (Exile it face down. You may look at it at any time. You may draw from your cache instead of from your library.)
New version of Damocles:
Damocles {cost} (Exile this face-down from your hand for {2}. You may look at it at any time. You may cast it from your Damocles pile for {cost}.)
It's slightly longer though, I do like the removal of "you may" and the dot to separate the looking ability from the casting ability ^^
Thanks a lot for the help!
Instead of defining the targets, it just examines them.
XD
The loophole here is for 2HG. We may need the inclusion of teammate as in "surge" from OGW.
Damocles {cost} ({2}: Exile this card face-down from your hand. You may look at it at any time. You may cast it for {cost}.)
Damocles: Really cool iteration as well! I was affraid it would get unclear that you need this to be exiled with Damocles to be able to use the Damocles cost, but since it's part of the ability itself it's actually obvious and work very well now that I see it.
Thank you so much @Faiths_Guide for your tremendous help on these mechanics! I will settle for those two iterations I think as they are clean and short. And once again thanks to Corwinnn and modnation675 that contributed as well to get the mechanics there!
Final version (probably):
Malevolent — Whenever you cast a spell with a target you don't own or control, [EFFECT].
Damocles {cost} ({2}: Exile this card face-down from your hand. You may look at it at any time. You may cast it for {cost}.)
You can't reference a pile that doesn't exist. You keep trying to change the wording, then breaking it in the process.
Comprehensive rules:
406.4. Face-down cards in exile should be kept in separate piles based on when they were exiled and how they were exiled
So the reminder card is actually there to remind players not to mix their Damocles cards with other exiled cards, as mentioned in the comprehensive rules. Also it's a reminder card, it's functional help not rules text, if refering to your "pile of cards you exiled with Damocles" is the right way to make everyone understand the mechanic, then it's the right place to use slang like it ^^
Yes the line "always keep he cards you exiled with Damocles in a separate pile" was added to the reminder card based on your earlier comments. Now, I understood your last comment as "You can't reference the pile of Damocles cards on the reminder card if the reminder text of the ability itself doesn't talk about a pile". Which is why I answered that the pile exists whether I reference it in the reminder text of the ability or not, as it's created by the sole action of exiling the card face-down, and that the reminder card is just here to prevent players from forgetting to put those cards in a separate pile.
I hope this helps make the conversation clearer?
Very nice.
Malevolent wouldn't work when targeting yourself as you do control yourself. Self-control? XD
Glad to be of help! You're a stellar smith and I enjoy tackling problems with you!
...
You're completely right though, I really struggled to find the appropriate rules but there is "714. Controlling Another Player" which does mean you do control yourself, I never thought about it before XD
Where are we using these mechanic designs?
The concept is a custom set that is resolutely turned to the online community, which means it mimics a real set BUT there are exceptions rules: though you can't go in Unset territory, you can do things you wouldn't normally do in paper Magic very often like stealing permanents, shuffling or creating complicated tokens. You must be able to play it online and to create all cards on MTGCARDSMITH except tokens (so no mechanics like Aftermath).
It's a bottom-up set based on ten bicolour archetypes that must all be original in their own way (for instance you can't do UB sacrifice control because it's already been done before, but I have a GW sacrifice midrange archetype for instance that I call "Greater Good".)
As it's bottom-up, the flavour comes second and can be adapted. I decided to adapt Trabadart for this, my Tragedy world that comes to its end. I want to have a light theme so I can use most arts, with a theatrical subtheme mixing comedy and a variety of emotions to give a more unique feel to the set ^^
This is why the flavour of Malevolent can still be adapted, I haven't decided how it fits in the world yet, it's just what the archetypes need right now to work. Damocles represents the finality, the ultimatum for the end of Trabadart so it's a bit different as I know already it will have a more central place than the other mechanics.
Love it. Keep me apprised. XD
By the way, I'd love to see a "copy spell" (such as fork) that has the malevolent effect included so that it's even more effective copying another's spells than your own.