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Renaissance Set — Creative Design
Hello everyone =D
We (@Lujikul, @OneBigBlueSky, @obsidianhoax, @MagicChess, @HenryTheHatter, @modnation675 and @ningyounk) have started to build a full Renaissance set about a month ago. While we took a break due to exams, we would like to kick the project back, but we need YOUR help for that. We need fresh ideas to tackle some creative difficulties, so here's a list of everything we would need to finish the early creative part of design for the set.
[EDIT: 15/07/2017]
Thank you everyone, the set has gone pretty far and start to have a clear creative identity! The following lines are a summary of what we know about the set. Below the summary is a list of what we still need to close the creative thread and jump to the actual design thread. Feel free to jump in at any time! =D
1) Set definition
- The set is Top-Down Renaissance, which means we are translating the concept of Renaissance in Magic terms.
- This is a Life-matters set. This means that, just as Amonkhet was a graveyard-matters set and Kaladesh an artifacts-matter set, the set cares more than usual about life.
2) Themes and tropes
- The main secondary theme of the set is emotions. Notably, we have muses that inspire emotions.
- Other themes that we feel are important: Art, plagiarism, exploration, science, humanism, philosophy, religion. This is not exhaustive of course!
3) Mechanics
- This is the flashy mechanic that ties into the Life-matters aspect of the set. Note that we're still looking for a definitive name and flavour (does it represent inspiration for instance?)
Psylian life. (Psylian life is part of your life total. You always lose psylian life before regular life. Pay 2 psylian life: Add a mana of any color to your mana pool.)
- This mechanic depicts how Art is living on this plane:
Virtuoso N (Create an N/N all colors Art creature token with haste and "Sacrifice this creature at the beginning of the next end step.")
- This mechanic depicts both the search for technologic innovation and explorers roaming the world:
Discover THING (Reveal the top three cards of your library. You may put a THING card from among them in your hand. Put the rest on the bottom of your library in any order.)
E.g: Discover a land ; Discover a creature or planeswalker ; Discover Green ; Discover converted mana cost 3 or less ; Etc.
4) Story
- The magic of this plane infuses life to art.
- Something is messing with the emotions of this plane's inhabitants, and it seems to have something to do with the Muses of emotions.
- The plane is an archipelago made out of many islands, waiting to be discovered.
Now, in order to progress from creative to the actual design phase, we'd like to figure out some remaining details first:
1) Additional mechanics
- A Renaissance mechanic. Renaissance is a difficult theme because you don't have big tropes like pyramids and mummies for Egypt. So, for the main theme to be loud enough, a mechanic about Rebirth/Renewal/... is probably needed.
- A good mechanic representing messed up emotions (Overflow/Outburst/...) could be really useful.
2) Story details
- We're still defining the details of the story which is why there's so little written above. The story will be solid enough for actual design once we have decided five key moments.
- In particular, we're still discussing the nature of the antagonist. Is it a planeswalker? Something bigger?
3) Archetype grid
Now that the set starts to have a mechanical identity, we must give each two-colours combination a rough game plan. The game plans must be balanced into the five (more or less) categories of archetypes every set must propose: Control, Midrange, Disruptive Aggro, Turbo/Beatdown Aggro, Combo (includes Ramp and Graveyard).
Feel free to comment below, we would be super thankful for any input you have about the set!
We (@Lujikul, @OneBigBlueSky, @obsidianhoax, @MagicChess, @HenryTheHatter, @modnation675 and @ningyounk) have started to build a full Renaissance set about a month ago. While we took a break due to exams, we would like to kick the project back, but we need YOUR help for that. We need fresh ideas to tackle some creative difficulties, so here's a list of everything we would need to finish the early creative part of design for the set.
[EDIT: 15/07/2017]
Thank you everyone, the set has gone pretty far and start to have a clear creative identity! The following lines are a summary of what we know about the set. Below the summary is a list of what we still need to close the creative thread and jump to the actual design thread. Feel free to jump in at any time! =D
1) Set definition
- The set is Top-Down Renaissance, which means we are translating the concept of Renaissance in Magic terms.
- This is a Life-matters set. This means that, just as Amonkhet was a graveyard-matters set and Kaladesh an artifacts-matter set, the set cares more than usual about life.
2) Themes and tropes
- The main secondary theme of the set is emotions. Notably, we have muses that inspire emotions.
- Other themes that we feel are important: Art, plagiarism, exploration, science, humanism, philosophy, religion. This is not exhaustive of course!
3) Mechanics
- This is the flashy mechanic that ties into the Life-matters aspect of the set. Note that we're still looking for a definitive name and flavour (does it represent inspiration for instance?)
Psylian life. (Psylian life is part of your life total. You always lose psylian life before regular life. Pay 2 psylian life: Add a mana of any color to your mana pool.)
- This mechanic depicts how Art is living on this plane:
Virtuoso N (Create an N/N all colors Art creature token with haste and "Sacrifice this creature at the beginning of the next end step.")
- This mechanic depicts both the search for technologic innovation and explorers roaming the world:
Discover THING (Reveal the top three cards of your library. You may put a THING card from among them in your hand. Put the rest on the bottom of your library in any order.)
E.g: Discover a land ; Discover a creature or planeswalker ; Discover Green ; Discover converted mana cost 3 or less ; Etc.
4) Story
- The magic of this plane infuses life to art.
- Something is messing with the emotions of this plane's inhabitants, and it seems to have something to do with the Muses of emotions.
- The plane is an archipelago made out of many islands, waiting to be discovered.
Now, in order to progress from creative to the actual design phase, we'd like to figure out some remaining details first:
1) Additional mechanics
- A Renaissance mechanic. Renaissance is a difficult theme because you don't have big tropes like pyramids and mummies for Egypt. So, for the main theme to be loud enough, a mechanic about Rebirth/Renewal/... is probably needed.
- A good mechanic representing messed up emotions (Overflow/Outburst/...) could be really useful.
2) Story details
- We're still defining the details of the story which is why there's so little written above. The story will be solid enough for actual design once we have decided five key moments.
- In particular, we're still discussing the nature of the antagonist. Is it a planeswalker? Something bigger?
3) Archetype grid
Now that the set starts to have a mechanical identity, we must give each two-colours combination a rough game plan. The game plans must be balanced into the five (more or less) categories of archetypes every set must propose: Control, Midrange, Disruptive Aggro, Turbo/Beatdown Aggro, Combo (includes Ramp and Graveyard).
Feel free to comment below, we would be super thankful for any input you have about the set!
This discussion has been closed.
Comments
I am at your service however possible.
Virtuoso N (Create a N/N all color Art creature token with haste and "Sacrifice this creature at the beginning of the next end step.")
For organizational purposes.
Just 'cause, I'd love to see Dack Fayden and art stealing thieves making some appearance here. {u}{r} Rogues anyone?
Art thieves are definitely a good trope to explore! To be honest I don't know much about Dack Fayden storywise (I've seen his card but that's about it), was he popular?
I dunno, I'm clueless about lore in general. I've heard "Greatest thief in the Multiverse" a bunch of times and thought he'd be neat. XD
I think it can be a great mechanic, it's just a matter of designing the card to be great with or without it. But crazy with it!
-1 transmute? May you be more specific?
Although the mechanic would be reworded as follows.
Rework {1}{w} ({1}{w}, Discard this card: Search your library for a card with converted mana cost one less than this card, reveal it, and put it to your hand. Then shuffle your library.)
But I think that it would make more sense as the following.
Rework {1}{w} ({1}{w}, Discard this card: Search your library for a card with converted mana cost one more than this card, reveal it, and put it to your hand. Then shuffle your library.)
We've been looking for artwork for that, but the set has gotten slowed down after a period of time. Currently we're needing to find a large enough collection of artwork for this aspect. As such, it's been held to the side for the time being.
I've been looking for artwork but have gotten into more of a UB spree lately, which is why I haven't been posting cards as consistently. Especially as the Scarab God has been revealed.
Thieve X (Gain control of X target Art creatures. When this card leaves the battlefield, return all Art creatures to their owner's control.)
Too exclusive to my way of thinking. Plus the art "auto-sacrifices" EoT.
The artwork of Lira is especially beautiful, this could definitely fit on some card! ^^
On Grandeur, I think it's incredibly difficult to make it work in Limited, and it would only be possible if we make a Legendary-Matters set. It would be on theme though, as Renaissance is full of important figures, I'm just scared to tackle this theme because the last set who tried it (Kamigawa) went notoriously bad. But the legendary rules was also much more frustrating at that time, so it could be an option if done correctly!
On the Transmute-like mechanic, we know Transmute generates a lot of card shuffling and decreases gameplay variety, so it would need to be very specifically worded to avoid those two issues. Looking only at some cards from the top of your library could be a solution for instance?
@Faiths_Guide
I like the golem idea, it feels like a very artistic creature type. Also, superb piece of artwork! Thanks
And yes, you immediatly got the hang of Virtuoso (I would have expected no less from you ;D) As you already realized, Virtuoso is not just an aggro mechanic, you can care about the tokens in a lot of ways: sacrifice outlets, death trigger, Art lords, triggering Virtuoso multiple times on the same card, etc... Which is why it caught our interest.
@syntheticreign
We would like to diversify the tropes we use as much as possible, but it still needs to evoke Renaissance in a large public. From my point of view for instance, science and inventions are great trope ideas, knights makes me think of Middle Age before Renaissance, and I would not have linked Pirates with Renaissance. Let's say YOU would have to define which aspect of Renaissance to use for a Magic set, what would you keep?
For Virtuoso, the flavour is that spells are Art and they come to life when they are beautifully executed. The sacrifice is what makes them interesting: it pushes you to attack with them, or find a use to them before the end of the turn.
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@brcien It's not the first time clerics and life gain were mentioned, for some reason people seems to associate that with Renaissance. We should definitely consider the option thanks
Actually this last comment made me think of something:
Do you all think it would be possible to have a Life-Matters set as the mechanical focus, like one would do a graveyard set or a tribal set?
The more I think about it, the more I realize there should be at least enough design space as a Land-Matters set, and probably much more.
Here's an example:
That's cool, I like that flavor! Um, well I may not associate knights specifically, but jousting is something I definitely link to the Renaissance. Pirates, inventions, definitely art. Maybe plague as well, to a lesser extent.
I like the idea of lands matter, since there was a hierarchy of power in the Renaissance, and the more wealthy held more estate. Maybe you could create a mechanic for legendary creatures (lords and ladies) that cares about how many lands you control, or how many creatures (servants)?