@mondnation675 and @NokiSkaur To be honest, the Gatewatch stink. I mean, it could have worked with different characters, but here is the long list of problems. 1. Either the characters don't work well together or the story writers can't really put them together well. a. Liliana's presence makes Jace look stupid and pathetic, when he is the most intelligent and useful of them all. b. Chandra and Gideon have a really complicated relationship which hasn't even been referenced to. 2. The characters, being centered around one mana color (yes, the planeswalker deck Nissa is back to mono green), This makes them start getting boring very quickly. a. Chandra just blows stuff up, and while it appeared her personality changed in Kaladesh, it went back to the same thing in Amonkhet. b. Gideon is just Gideon. I mean, seriosly, tell me one time he interested you. Oh, right, that was back in Gatecrash. c. Jace is great and is a very interesting character. But, with Liliana around, and the writers seeming reluctance to have him use any of his powers usefully, he has slowly crept from my favorite character to my least favorite. d. Nissa is really boring. She's the character that spent entire articles in Amonkhet trying to learn how to speak to people. And when she fights she is WAY too overpowered. From gaining control of Taminyo and single handedly trapping Emrakul to momentarily controlling the god of knowledge, seriously!? e. Fine, I admit, I enjoy Liliana. She is so fun to hear narrating a story. And she actually has a changing, interesting, personality. f. Ajani, oh wait, who's Ajani? 3. To be honest, a MTG Avengers team doesn't work. a. It suppresses minor characters. Hmmm... remember Dovin Baan or Arlin Kord? No? See, you've already forgotten. b. They end up being overused. 4. THEY ARE SOOOOO OVERPOWERED a. Premending: Three planeswlakers spent forty years trapping three Eldrazi titans on the plane of Zendikar. Postmending: Four planeswalkers spend a few minutes and destroy two Eldrazi titans. b. One is immune to everything. c. One can control anything with leylines. d. One can create an entire army of undead. e. One can create a fire so large it engulfed two Eldrazi Titans and blew up and entire building, without is collapsing. Hmmm... convenient. f. And one can pick a lock with his mind, yay!!!!!!!!!!!!!
@Tigersol Many of your points revolve around the MTG story, and I can't really make a refutation to those because I am currently reading the OGW arc. However, I will try to counter those points to my full extent.
2: Yes, that contributes to the fact why they're not interesting. Another problem is how overused they are--if they weren't used in every set since BFZ, we probably wouldn't have this problem.
b: There is a reason I said four of the community's favourite characters instead of five. Gideon is just a generic soldier with magic, and that is in no way interesting.
c: This problem wouldn't exist if the Gatewatch wasn't overused. Individual members of the Gatewatch can get involved without this problem existing--the Gatewatch can exist without them always being together.
f: I can't tell if you're being serious or not, but I haven't gotten far enough in the story to give an explanation of his role.
3: A point doesn't work if you don't expand on it. I understand that you do this in the sub-points, but I can't agree with a point that has no basis.
b: Again, the Gatewatch doesn't have to get involved with everything. That's what I've been trying to push this whole time. Individual members can come occasionally, but they don't need to be used as much as they currently are.
4: All planeswalkers are overpowered somehow--it's the overuse of these five characters that makes their overpowered abilities a problem.
b: I could be wrong, but can't certain magic start from inside Gideon and effectively kill him?
c: Yes, but there may be more powerful magic keeping those leylines away from her.
e: Fire can be blocked by pretty much anything that isn't flammable, correct? The size of a fire is meaningless if you can contain it.
f: Could you explain to me how this is overpowered?
3f. (Minor spoilers): Ajani joins the Gatewatch at the end of the Aether Revolt storyline. He objects to fighting Nicol Bolas on the dragon's own turf, so he doesn't come to Amonkhet with the other five. Presumably at the end of Hour of Devastation, he'll give the other members a stern scolding.
4b. (Minor spoilers): Gideon's skin may be unbreakable, but he's not actually "immune to everything". He can be suffocated, as happens in the BfZ storyline. His invulnerability can also be magically negated, which happens at least twice in Amonkhet block. It's also implied that enough damage could overwhelm his protection magic as well, in Kaladesh block. So he's tough, but certainly beatable by anyone who is trying to do more than just stab him with a pointy stick.
4e. The specific event that Tigersol is referencing from OGW occurs under very specific circumstances. That's not something she can do normally, as it would kill her (this is explained in the Kaladesh story).
@NokiSkaur For 4f I was joking on how useless WOTC has made Jace. I mean, he hasn't done a thing since article 6 in Aether Revolt. And for 2f I was joking as well. I mean, Ajani did absolutely nothing in the Aether Revolt story.
@Platypusburger That was the Kaladesh story. To me WOTC and Ajani was a bit like... "Let's add a new member to the Gatewatch. Okay how about Ajani... cool! Now let's have him go off to Dominaria so we continue the Return to Dominaria and Ixalan storyline! Screw the Gatewatch actually using him."
As a character i find Ajani a hundred times more appealing and interesting than gideon ever was and I would be happy if he took over gideon's place in..any context.
The end of the gatewatch would be such a good thing for mtg storytelling as far as I'm concerned. Crush them Bolas.
I hope kaladesh isn't the only set that will touch on Indian stylings. A set that explored mechanics actually tied to that culture like how amonkhet does things would be interesting.
@saveria201 , that's not going to happen. WotC has said that they are not interested in making settings based around cultures that still exist, so anything that ties to Hinduism is off of the table. The best you would get is more Indian aesthetics in the art.
Comments
To be honest, the Gatewatch stink. I mean, it could have worked with different characters, but here is the long list of problems.
1. Either the characters don't work well together or the story writers can't really put them together well.
a. Liliana's presence makes Jace look stupid and pathetic, when he is the most intelligent and useful of them all.
b. Chandra and Gideon have a really complicated relationship which hasn't even been referenced to.
2. The characters, being centered around one mana color (yes, the planeswalker deck Nissa is back to mono green), This makes them start getting boring very quickly.
a. Chandra just blows stuff up, and while it appeared her personality changed in Kaladesh, it went back to the same thing in Amonkhet.
b. Gideon is just Gideon. I mean, seriosly, tell me one time he interested you. Oh, right, that was back in Gatecrash.
c. Jace is great and is a very interesting character. But, with Liliana around, and the writers seeming reluctance to have him use any of his powers usefully, he has slowly crept from my favorite character to my least favorite.
d. Nissa is really boring. She's the character that spent entire articles in Amonkhet trying to learn how to speak to people. And when she fights she is WAY too overpowered. From gaining control of Taminyo and single handedly trapping Emrakul to momentarily controlling the god of knowledge, seriously!?
e. Fine, I admit, I enjoy Liliana. She is so fun to hear narrating a story. And she actually has a changing, interesting, personality.
f. Ajani, oh wait, who's Ajani?
3. To be honest, a MTG Avengers team doesn't work.
a. It suppresses minor characters. Hmmm... remember Dovin Baan or Arlin Kord? No? See, you've already forgotten.
b. They end up being overused.
4. THEY ARE SOOOOO OVERPOWERED
a. Premending: Three planeswlakers spent forty years trapping three Eldrazi titans on the plane of Zendikar. Postmending: Four planeswalkers spend a few minutes and destroy two Eldrazi titans.
b. One is immune to everything.
c. One can control anything with leylines.
d. One can create an entire army of undead.
e. One can create a fire so large it engulfed two Eldrazi Titans and blew up and entire building, without is collapsing. Hmmm... convenient.
f. And one can pick a lock with his mind, yay!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Many of your points revolve around the MTG story, and I can't really make a refutation to those because I am currently reading the OGW arc. However, I will try to counter those points to my full extent.
2: Yes, that contributes to the fact why they're not interesting. Another problem is how overused they are--if they weren't used in every set since BFZ, we probably wouldn't have this problem.
b: There is a reason I said four of the community's favourite characters instead of five. Gideon is just a generic soldier with magic, and that is in no way interesting.
c: This problem wouldn't exist if the Gatewatch wasn't overused. Individual members of the Gatewatch can get involved without this problem existing--the Gatewatch can exist without them always being together.
f: I can't tell if you're being serious or not, but I haven't gotten far enough in the story to give an explanation of his role.
3: A point doesn't work if you don't expand on it. I understand that you do this in the sub-points, but I can't agree with a point that has no basis.
b: Again, the Gatewatch doesn't have to get involved with everything. That's what I've been trying to push this whole time. Individual members can come occasionally, but they don't need to be used as much as they currently are.
4: All planeswalkers are overpowered somehow--it's the overuse of these five characters that makes their overpowered abilities a problem.
b: I could be wrong, but can't certain magic start from inside Gideon and effectively kill him?
c: Yes, but there may be more powerful magic keeping those leylines away from her.
e: Fire can be blocked by pretty much anything that isn't flammable, correct? The size of a fire is meaningless if you can contain it.
f: Could you explain to me how this is overpowered?
3f. (Minor spoilers): Ajani joins the Gatewatch at the end of the Aether Revolt storyline. He objects to fighting Nicol Bolas on the dragon's own turf, so he doesn't come to Amonkhet with the other five. Presumably at the end of Hour of Devastation, he'll give the other members a stern scolding.
4b. (Minor spoilers): Gideon's skin may be unbreakable, but he's not actually "immune to everything". He can be suffocated, as happens in the BfZ storyline. His invulnerability can also be magically negated, which happens at least twice in Amonkhet block. It's also implied that enough damage could overwhelm his protection magic as well, in Kaladesh block. So he's tough, but certainly beatable by anyone who is trying to do more than just stab him with a pointy stick.
4e. The specific event that Tigersol is referencing from OGW occurs under very specific circumstances. That's not something she can do normally, as it would kill her (this is explained in the Kaladesh story).
For 4f I was joking on how useless WOTC has made Jace. I mean, he hasn't done a thing since article 6 in Aether Revolt.
And for 2f I was joking as well. I mean, Ajani did absolutely nothing in the Aether Revolt story.
That was the Kaladesh story. To me WOTC and Ajani was a bit like... "Let's add a new member to the Gatewatch. Okay how about Ajani... cool! Now let's have him go off to Dominaria so we continue the Return to Dominaria and Ixalan storyline! Screw the Gatewatch actually using him."
The end of the gatewatch would be such a good thing for mtg storytelling as far as I'm concerned. Crush them Bolas.
I hope kaladesh isn't the only set that will touch on Indian stylings. A set that explored mechanics actually tied to that culture like how amonkhet does things would be interesting.
I agree.
BUMP
Lorwyn/Shadowmoor takes inspiration from Celtic legends.