MTG Cardsmith Community Forums
Renaissance Set — Design Phase
This discussion has been closed.
Howdy, Stranger!
It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!
It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!
Comments
Also, concerning the Tomescrapper, neither this card nor courser of kruphix (which this card is based a bit on), are actually ramp since the land still costs you a land slot. The advantage you get from a courser of kruphix is that you get to draw a card when ever a land is on top of your library. While it is kind of true that green has a monopoly on all effects with the word "land" in them, i don't think it really gives u/b any tools they didn't already have since they are both colors that draw a lot of cards. Also being able to play anything i'm pretty sure is too good since in the late game you get a one-card lantern-control lock where you play all their non lands and make them draw lands each turn. If we had to change it, maybe instants would be the best thing for it to hit.
You've mentioned something that could be a problem though: The same way letting you cast any card from the opponent's library, this effect could prevent your opponent from making his or her land drops which could be considered a problem because it becomes an uninteractive lock
________
Completely different topic, I was worried when reading the new State of Design article that our four mechanics were lacking in synergy. We had sets in the past with low-synergy mechanics (I'm thinking Tarkir for instance) but we will need to compensate with more "glue" cards that makes them synergize better ^^ So I was thinking on how we should implement the themes of the set.
For the life-matters theme, I was thinking of mimicking the as-fan for artifact-matters in Kaladesh with a small adjustment of the colours distribution. Roughly the same number of cards that increase your artifact number / manipulate life totals, and roughly the same number of cards that reward you for having artifacts / manipulating life totals. There are a number of colorless artifacts that need to be converted in colored life manipulation cards, but not all of them since the game inherently lets you lose life and remove life from opponent without needing specific cards.
For psylian life specifically, I was thinking something between energy in Kaladesh and Cycling in Amonkhet (colour-shifted): Focused on the three Abzan colours but with at least a common in the other colours.
First let see how this was done in Kaladesh:
TOTAL NUMBER: Total number of cards of this colour in the set skeleton of Kaladesh. I give you this number for scale purpose.
GIVE ARTIFACT: Those are the cards that simply increase your number of artifacts you control without specifically caring about artifacts. For instance, a virtual vanilla creature with Fabricate like Ambitious Aetherborn or a vehicle like Irontread Crusher.
CARE ABOUT ARTIFACT: Those are the cards that interact with your artifacts and reward you for having some, but without providing artifacts themselves. For instance, cards that get better with artifacts like Foundry Screecher or pilots like Gearshift Ace.
BOTH CARE AND GIVE: Those are the cards that both increase the number of arifacts you control and cares about them, like Marionette Master for instance, or artifacts that care about other artifacts like Chief of the Foundry
I didn't copy-pasted the whole table with rarities and card types because it's just terrible to look at. But basically, for the repartition of these numbers inside each colour, put 0 to 1 rare that gives you an artifact and 0 to 1 rare that cares about artifact in each colour, then divide equally the rest of the cards between commons and uncommons of that colour.
Now, to apply those numbers to cards caring about life on Rezatta, we can't just redistribute those numbers in the appropriate colours and be done with it for a couple of reasons:
1) We don't need as many enabler cards because (unlike for having artifacts) you can loose life and make opponents lose life without the help of dedicated cards. So I started by removing 10 of the 58 enabler cards.
2) Kaladesh being an artifact set, they are overly represented in its set skeleton compared to the more vanilla set skeleton we'll be using for Rezatta. So I redistributed the numbers from artifacts to the coloured cards equally (since every colour had access to them on Kaladesh.)
3) Then I shifted the colours a little, to make Green, White, and Black care a little more about life than other colours.
This little manipulation gives us a rough idea of the number of cards we should have in Rezzatta set skeleton that are about the life theme:
Are there any changes about this plan you'd like to discuss?
Another thing we need to consider is that damage technically changes one's life total.
Also, how does Psylian life factor into this? Are you counting psylian life total changes and psylian life gaining in this distribution?
On a different note, I've been working on a couple ideas for the set's dual land cycle. All of these ideas revolve around psylian life, as it's a major theme of the set, just like the Amonkhet dual lands had cycling.
- Enters tapped; ETB you gain 1 psylian life
- Enters untapped, taps for either color, doesn't untap during your untap step unless you have psylian life
- Enters tapped, taps for either color, has {t}: you gain 2 psylian life. (NOTE: this is better than having {t}: Add {c} to your mana pool, since there would be psylian life synergy cards.)
- Enters tapped, taps for {c}, has {t}, pay 2 psylian life: Add {color1} or {color2} to your mana pool
- Enters tapped or untapped (haven't decided), taps for {color1}, has {t}, pay 2 psylian life: Add {color2} to your mana pool
- This idea uses three-colored lands; with one primary color and two secondary ones. Enters tapped. Taps for {PrimaryColor}, has {t}, pay 2 psylian life: add {SecondaryColor1} or {SecondaryColor2} to your mana pool.
- Enters tapped, has {t}, tap a [land type] you control: Choose one -
*You gain two psylian life
* Add {color1} or {color2} to your mana pool
And here's an idea for a random colorless land:
CARDNAME
Land
{t}, Pay 3 life: You gain 2 psylian life.
Whenever you gain 3 or more life, you may untap CARDNAME.
"Change life total" refers to cards that will manipulate the life total of players. A creature with lifelink, a classic black drawing spell that exchange life for mana, or a burn spell that can deal damage to a player all fall into this category for instance.
Yes, I took into consideration that losing life or making an opponent lose life doesn't require you to play a dedicated spell by reducing the number of enabler spells (the ones that change life totals) by ~15% compared to the number of enabler cards (that give you artifacts) in Kaladesh.
Cards that give you psylian life automatically fall into the "change life" category. Cards caring about psylian life fall in the "cares about life category." So yes, I'm counting psylian life cards in this distribution, but only a portion of these cards should be about psylian life (as mentioned three comments above, I was thinking something similar to Cycling in Amonkhet or maybe Energy in Kaladesh for the distibution of Psylian Life cards).
On the psylian dual land:
- I think we should stick to two-coloured lands, three-coloured lands really only happens in multicoloured sets which this is not.
- "T: You gain two psylian life" may be a little strong because of how it can stack and how easy it would enable psylian life strategies (if a land provides you with that much psylian life, how much should a nonland card designed to be a psylian life producer would have to give you to compete?). If we did need to have some strong psylian life enablers, I would stick to either T: You gain 1 psylian life or 1,T: You gain 2 psylian life for instance. But probably more like a one-of instead of a cycle.
- I like the idea of the land getting worst without psylian life but not untapping feels a little too extreme. Here are some alternative ideas on this concept:
1) When CARDNAME enters the battlefield you gain 1 psylian life. T: Add C to your mana pool. T: Add W or U to your mana pool. Activate this ability only if you have psylian life.
2) CARDNAME enters the battlefield tapped. When CARDNAME enters the battlefield you gain 2 psylian life. T: Add W to your mana pool. T: Add U to your mana pool. Activate this ability only if you have psylian life.
3) When CARDNAME enters the battlefield you gain 1 psylian life. T: Add C to your mana pool. T, Pay 1 psylian life: Add a mana of any colour to your mana pool.
- I like the idea of tapping two lands to get a stronger effect. I'm not sure it blends well with psylian life. Maybe it can be a rare cycle with the "tap another land" thing and a more simple uncommon cycle that provides psylian life?
- The random concept colorless card sounds a little weird. Paying 3 life for a colorless mana is a a lot to ask, the lack of symmetry in the numbers doesn't help in my opinion, and the last ability actually isn't enable by the activated ability which is also a bit confusing the first time you read it. (Also, this will most certainly allow an infinite combo at some point I'm affraid.)
tap: add c to your mana pool
Pay 1 psylian life, tap: add one mana of any color to your mana pool (has to not be two cause then its a worse shimmering grotto)
You raise a fine point, it may be too parasitic to let them care about psylian life. I still think there should be a cycle of lands giving you psylian life though, to promote the mechanic. Just a cycle of tapped lands giving you a psylian life when it ETB could do the trick at uncommon (it's basically the life lands or Tarkir with a small upside, they can go in a deck that doesn't care at all about psylian life.)
Inside each colour:
- White was secondary in cycling by having 3 uncommons with cycling, like Blue and Black (though only 2 commons, I think they started with 4 like all other colours but removed two during development.)
- Blue and Black were primary with cycling. They have the same number of cycling commons but got all the cards caring about cycling (roughly 50/50 ratio), with a couple of additional uncommons and a couple of additional rares.
- Red and Green were tertiary with only one uncommon each (the cycle that had a smaller effect if you cycled the card instead of casting it.) The rest was common with the exception of Sweltering Suns.
I figured we could keep about the same as-fan for psylian life, while shifting the colours. Note that gaining life will definitely be a bend in some colours, whatever we do. The "convertion" trick could help soften the bend (You lose N nonpsylian lie and you gain N psylian life). I put White and Black primary and Green secondary which gives us this rough distribution of psylian cards:
Which leaves us with roughly 3-4 commons in each colour that gives psylian life. It may be too much because psylian life doesn't suit all colours as well as Cycling does. We're gonna have to try different things ^^
Interesting idea. I'd play that as solid and cool removal for blue.
@Everyone
I believe I have found some of the most phenomenal artwork we've seen in ages. Just check it out!
Source: Magical Fail by Dominik Mayer (Art Reference)
On Inspired Aven: Neat! ^^ I would have reversed the two abilities because since it has wings on the illustrations some players would probably think it has flying all the time.
On Inspired Art thief: Same, it would make a very fine common to promote the WB archetype ^^
On Warden of the Gardens: It is interesting, and a clever design! How good it fits will depend and how much mana filtering we need. I think the idea is interesting enough to be a little more pushed on an uncommon/rare that actually gives you psylian life. I could also imagine it quite well on an artifact actually. Here's a random ability it has made me think of: "Pay 3 psylian life: Add CC to your mana pool."
On Mask Trick: Ooh super spicy! It's an instant favourite for me, and the art makes it fit super well, I really hope we can make a room for it in the set =D
@Lujikul It's ok to have cards that care about pyslian life without giving you some as long as we think of them as specifically directed to a psylian life archetype and not as multiarchetype tools ^^ It's not different from cards like Hekma Sentinels, Nest of Scarabs or Binding Mummy that are very directional ^^
Apostle of Winter (rare)
2BB
Creature - Human
4/3
At the beginning of each player's upkeep, that player looses 4 life.
N.B: I was wondering how to make sure not to let the life theme drag the game for too long. It's supposed to help the BR and WB archetypes. It both gives you reach and it's less dangerous if you're the one gaining the most life.
__________
Grumpiness (Rare)
R
Instant
Until end of turn, whenever an opponent would gain life, he or she looses that much life instead.
Draw a card.
N.B.: It can look like a simple hate card but it's also a Johnny combo piece to help kill your opponents by healing them, hence the rarity ^^
__________
Painting Storm (Mythic)
3RR
Enchantment
Whenever you cast a spell, Compose X, where X is the number of spells you cast this turn.
N.B.: To allow a storm-like finisher ^^
__________
The Gifting
4WUBRG
Sorcery
Add any number of mana in any combination of colour to your mana pool.
N.B: A crazy finisher idea a la Omniscience.
__________
Sign in Tears (Mythic)
3BBBB
Sorcery
You draw 20 cards and you lose 20 life.
N.B: It's a redesign of an old card of mine that I liked but really undercosted. It's a twist on the staple Sign In Blood ^^
I really like grumpiness. On a side note, it gave me an idea for a life-gain notion thief. Painting storm as well, I think it's priced appropriately. Just note that storm in modern might play it since it kills in most of the instances where grapeshot kills and if you can actually get it down before combing off you need like 6 spells.
If we want a crazy mana finisher like The Gifting, I kind would kind of like the idea of "Replace your life total with psylian life." With maybe a gain 5 tacked on if its not good enough. Even if it ends up being balanced, "Gain infinite mana" is usually not a thing you are aloud to put on magic cards.
Sign in tears worries me similarly to painting storm. Legacy storm is able to get enough mana to cast minds desire which is the same amount of mana but requires blue (easier to make black mana cause the rituals make black). Storm doesn't always run Mind's desire, but when it does it usually ends the game, and drawing 20 cards is probably going to end the game. Granted you need to gain life to cast it, but I think if you cast a mini-tendrils before hand you are probably still going to draw into another finisher and enough gas to win the game. That said, you can counter a sign in tears and you can't counter a minds desire so maybe that balances it? Also it could maybe break ad nauseam in modern.
On the Boon Reflection / Rhox Faith Mender interaction: I'm pretty sure it works smoothly within the rules, those cards basically prevent you from gaining psylian life since they are replacement effects (Magic rules really are a thing of beauty, can you believe we did not break the game with our crazy psylian life mechanic?? xD). Basically, instead of gaining two psylian life you would gain four regular life ^^
__________
On the feedback above (feedbackception =D):
Apostle of Winter was mostly inspired by Crimson Honor Guard from Commander 2017, so I would not be as concerned powersise after Wizards has made this card. Maybe it could be more consensual at 5 mana like its model?
Life Notion Thief: I'm scared this would kill the life theme, it's probably too strong for a hate card in a life-matters set (I do like the general idea, maybe we could water it down?) The idea behing Grumpiness is that it's hate but it's not brutal, like an enchantment with "Players can't gain life" or anything ^^
On Painting Storm, the Gifting, and Sign in Tears: I just wanted to stress that we don't have to refrain (too much) while designing because of Modern interactions (and certainly not for Legacy) because Wizards clearly stated they wouldn't either. Cards have to be reasonable, but Magic has made its share of terrible design mistakes in the past that kind of broke the game (looking at you, Dredge) so they try to design for present sets without keeping them hostage from previous sets. My point here is not that we can design any crazy stuff and pretend Modern/Legacy doesn't exist, just that we must remember to think of our Standard environment first powerwise ^^
On Painting Storm, it was mostly inspired by Metallurgic Summonings from Kaladesh. It's possible it's actually much stronger though xD
On The Gifting and Sign in Tears, they were really random designs meant to push the boundaries of Magic rules a little. They're just here for the Wow effect, trying to see which simple effect could work and blow your mind on a funny Mythic ^^ I strongly want to defend Sign in Tears by the way xD It has the *potential* to be explosive which is why it's fun, but it has so many built-in restrictions it's probably jank! It costs A LOT of mana, it requires you to have a way not to lose on the spot because you just lost 20 life which usually is your starting life total, it requires something that converts either drawing 20 cards or losing 20 life into an actual win condition, and it's basically impossible to cast in anything but a monoBlack deck which considerably reduces its possible interactions ^^
__________
@everyone
I was chatting with an Hearstone player who never tried Magic and we started talking about the Renaissance set. The first idea he had was "Can't you bring back old cards but with a twist, as Renaissance is about rediscovering things from the Antiquity?" What do you think? Maybe we could have some fun and add a special purple rarity like the future shifted cards in Time Spiral, with re-interpretations of famous cards? Maybe something similar to the "Change a letter challenge"? http://forums.mtgcardsmith.com/discussion/2787/change-a-letter-game/p1
__________
Random design of the day:
CARDNAME (Rare)
2U
At the beginning of your upkeep, if you didn't lose life since your last turn, put a NAME counter on CARDNAME, then draw cards equal to the number of NAME counters on it.
Whenever you're dealt damage, remove all NAME counters from CARDNAME.
Psylian Flow (Rare)
XXBBB
Sorcery
Destroy all creatures. You gain psylian life equal to the number of creatures destroyed this way times X.