Renaissance Set — Design Phase

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  • @sanjaya666 idk if BBB destroy all creatures is ok. Maybe downgrade to -3/-3 or maybe -x/-x and reduce the mana cost?
  • Since everyones doing ideas here's one.
    image
  • @sanjaya666 actually, after thinking about it, as destroy all creatures its like fair at any x other than x equals zero, and gets much worse as -3/-3. Maybe we could just add an x can't be zero clause or adjust the cost accordingly?
  • Here are some concepts for Compose:

    Apprentice's Ambition (common or uncommon)
    Sorcery {2}{b}{b}
    Compose 2, then destroy target creature if you control three or more Art tokens.
    "Now I am the master!"
    - Kelan, Desire savant and apprentice sculptor


    Masterwork Exhibition (rare)
    Enchantment {1}{w}{u}
    Art tokens you control can't be sacrificed.
    Sacrifice Masterwork Exhibition if you control no Art tokens.
    Master artists come and go, but their masterpieces last forever.

    Masterwork Exhibition (couldn't think of a different name; rare)
    Sorcery {2}{u}{u}
    Return all instant and sorcery cards with Compose from your graveyard to your hand.
    Compose 1 three times.

    Scion of Artistry
    Enchantment Creature {1}{w}{u} 1/3
    Whenever you sacrifice an Art token, you may pay {1} (or maybe {2}?). If you do, create a copy of it at the beginning of your next upkeep.

    And a flavor idea: savants. Artists who overchannel the emotional power of a certain Muse, making breathtakingly depressing paintings; or vibrantly joyful dance; or write soul-stirring songs that inspire love and a feeling of community with all things. However, they become obsessed with and reliant on their art magic. It could be a new creature subtype that gives the creature a flaw related to controlling no Art tokens.
    What do you think?
  • edited September 2017
    @atrus159
    Maybe like this:

    Psylian Flow (Rare)
    Sorcery
    XXBBB
    Destroy all creatures. You gain psylian life and lose life equal to the number of creatures destroyed this way times X.
  • @sanjaya666 the problem wasn't that gaining psylian life was too good, it was that casting it x zero as a three mana destroy all minions with no drawback was too good.
  • @atrus159
    The drawback is losing your life?
  • @sanjaya666
    We're talking no drawback Bontu's Last Reckoning, to put it in perspective.
  • Number of creatures destroyed this way times zero is zero?
  • edited September 2017
    @atrus159
    Then it should be 'times one plus an additional times X.'

    @Lujikul
    Well, where's the fun in it?
  • @sanjaya666 On Psylian Flow: As already mentioned by the others, leaving the possibility of casting it for X=0 is going to pose a developmental problem because having a three mana Damnation would completely wrap the format around it. There are numerous ways of getting around this, but don't lose sight of the bigger picture: Does the card end up being in a fun place, or is it terribly complicated due to all the loops necessary for it not to be broken? "Times one plus an additional times X" sounds more complicated than it's worth for instance, in my opinion.

    @atrus159 On Burning Insight: I think these numbers are too strong, but I like the concept of instants/sorceries that you can get back ^^ I had a ton of fun with Unconventional Tactics for instance at my prerelease! Also, it could easily be flavoured as rediscovering stuff from Antiquity which is the whole point of Renaissance ^^ Maybe it could be part of a cycle, I'd be excited for that, with maybe effects a little less potent than Lightning Strike as a general rule :)

    @MagicChess Wow there are a ton of really exciting concepts in there! I like all of those, here are more specific comments for some of them:
    - On Apprentice's Ambition: You could probably count all Arts (instead of just Art tokens) since this opens the possibility for actual Art creature cards in the set (this could be the twist for our mandatory vanilla common cycle for instance.)
    - On Masterwork Exhibition #1: I've seen quite a few different people proposing this idea, I think at this point we should lock a slot in the set for it because, when reading the Compose mechanic, people seem to really have this expectation for an Art lord that allows you to keep your Art tokens ^^
    - On Scion of Artistry: This may create memory issues, maybe involve counters?

    About Savants: I'd be careful not be too parasitic, so I'd watch closely which colours have access to those. But yeah they could have an interesting flavour ^^
  • edited September 2017
    Deleted.
  • @sanjaya666 I really like the art! But infestation effects (-2/-2 to everyone) have never been costed under 3 mana, for this cost you could get -1/-1 (Nausea/Shrivel) which are mere commons ^^ Maybe something simpler would work better? For instance:

    Psylian Flow (Rare)
    2BB
    Sorcery
    You gain 2 pylian life, then all creatures get -X/-X until end of turn, where X is your psylian life.
  • @ningyounk
    Your idea is definitely better.

    @sanjaya666
    In your last version, successfully killing creatures reduces psylian life gain. As for the other versions, they either don't make sense or cost too little.
  • edited September 2017
    @ningyounk

    Deleted due to stupidity.

    And another one.

    image
  • @ningyounk For burning-insight like effects, What do you think of keeping the power level but have it go to the top of your library instead of your hand?
  • @atrus159 Returning to the top of the library is considerably weaker than returning to the hand, I think I'd personally prefer the former even if it means that the returning trigger is more difficult to hit ^^

    @sanjaya666 On Vaeril: I like the "Whenever you cast a [colour] spell" double trigger, but the two effects feel very disconnected. On this type of card, you'd probably want two abilities that either do something symetrical (e.g. gaining life vs. removing life) or actually synergizes so a Blue/Green spell gets an added value that is the interaction between the two abilities (e.g. entering with a +1/+1 counter and doing something proportional to the creature's toughness like looting that many cards.)
  • edited September 2017
    @ningyounk In that case maybe we should price them similar to comparable flashback cards. We could have the cycle mirror some cards with flashback or something. Example:

    Discovered Flame - R
    sorcery

    Discovered Flame deals 2 damage to target creature or player.

    3R, tap an untapped art creature you control: return Discovered Flame from your graveyard to your hand.

  • edited September 2017
    @atrus159 It sounds like a plan! ^^ I'd like to play with original triggers for that idea, almost like quests if possible. For instance:
    - Whenever three or more creatures you control block the same attacking creature, you may pay COST. If you do, return CARDNAME from your graveyard to your hand.
    - Sacrifice a creature you control but don't own: Return CARDNAME from your graveyard to your hand.
    - Whenever you successfully discover a card, you may pay COST. If you do, return CARDNAME from your graveyard to your hand.
    - Whenever you cast a spell with converted mana cost 7 or greater, you may return CARDNAME from your graveyard to your hand.
    - Etc.
  • Oh, I've forgotten this chat! Holy crap this looks good.
    Hm, here's a discover common:
    Enterprising Explorer 1B
    Creature - Human/Vampire Rogue (whichever one works
    2B, Pay 2 psylian life: Discover a creature.
    "I can help you find all of Rezatta's secrets - for a price."
  • Oh hey, what does psylian actually mean?
  • @TezzeretofCarmot21 I could see that work at uncommon it's quite strong ^^ I suppose Black don't really need the creature restriction, it could be "Discover a card" I believe ^^

    @atrus159 Psylian is a working name that doesn't mean anything, we'd like to find a more flavourful name for the final version ^^ I pitched the concept as "inverted phyrexian mana" (because instead of being mana that you could pay with life, it is life that you could pay for mana). Since phyrexian mana has the phi letter on its symbol, I picked a random other Greek letter for the new concept, psy, and came up with "psylian life" in reference to "phyrexian mana" x) The concept name stuck for way too long actually xD
  • Speaking of concept names, the current plane name, Rezatta, isn't quite sticking with me. It doesn't feel like it quite clicks, like Innistrad, Ahmonkhet, or Ravnica did for their respective sets.
  • @Lujikul Could you pinpoint any specific reason that creates a dissonance with what you expect? Or maybe have an example or name that really works well for you? Made-up names can't make sense by themselves by definition, but we can try to give them sense by either piggybacking or just by simply linking cool arts and concepts to it ^^ For instance, thinking or Rezatta as a very italian name (knowing that Renaissance started in Italy) and having the word "Reset" hidden inside for the cyclic nature of the plane, does it work better?
  • @ningyounk
    It might just be the early morning loonie in me thinking/talking, but it just feels disjointed, or unattached. I had the same issue with Kaladesh.

    Rezatta doesn't sound optimistic. It doesn't sound hopeful. It sounds kinda meh.

    Innistrad sounds grim.
    Ahmonkhet just sounds Egyptian and a little foreboding, which was the point.
    Mirrodin literally sounds metallic.

    The name Kaladesh didn't make me think of revolution, India, or give off a "anything is possible vibe."

    Of course, all of that is subjective and opinion based.
  • edited September 2017
    Here are my thoughts so far:


    Discovered Flame - R
    sorcery

    Discovered Flame deals 2 damage to target creature or player.

    3R, tap an untapped art creature you control: return Discovered Flame from your graveyard to your hand.



    Unearthed Malice - 1B
    sorcery

    Target Player sacrifices a creature

    Whenever you lose 3 or more life, you may pay 4bb. If you do, return Unearthed malice from your graveyard to your hand.



    Invented Escape - U
    sorcery

    Target creature is unblockable this turn.

    Whenever a creature enters the battlefield under your control that wasn't cast from your hand, you may pay U. If you do, return Invented Escape from your graveyard to your hand.



    Contrived Supremacy - 3WW
    sorcery

    Create five 1/1 white TYPE creature tokens.

    At the beginning of each upkeep, if you have more life than each opponent you may pay 6WW. If you do, return Contrived Supremacy from your graveyard to your hand.



    Revealed Might - 2G
    sorcery

    Create a 3/3 green TYPE creature token

    3G, tap a creature you control with power 4 or greater: return Revealed Might from your graveyard to your hand.
  • Enterprising Explorer 3B
    Creature - Vampire Rogue
    4B, Pay 2 psylian life: Discover a spell.
    "I can help you find all of Rezatta's secrets - for a price."
    3/4
    Nerfed a bit and added p/t. What rarity is it best at?
  • @ningyounk oh, I talked with some friends about winter apostle and none of them seem to think its a problem so idk.
  • @atrus159 It looks like a really exciting cycle to me! I'd make sure that none of those cards can completely lock out an opponent or be too frustrating to play against, so we could reconsider a few details:
    - I think it would be even cooler to get all return abilities be triggered abilities instead of a mix of activated and triggered abilities, it would look very elegant ^^ On the same note, balancing the trigger so the returning cost is always the equal to the mana cost would make them easier to understand, I think.
    - Discovered Flame: Shock is a very fine card by itself and I think we should stay away from target removal in this cycle ^^ A pump spell could fit red pretty well for instance withtout feeling that terrible to play against. +3/+0 for R?
    - Unearthed Malice: The returning cost seems very discouraging, it may be more appealing with a more "exotic" trigger but less mana to pay? As I mentioned above, having all of their returning costs be equal to their respective mana cost could be really cool ^^
    - Contrived Supremacy: I believe the effect is a little strong in this version, it's no big deal since the concept itself is good in my opinion, but I wouldn't see anything stronger than 3tokens/4mana for a semi-repeatable effect.
    - Invented Escape: I love that trigger!=)
    - Revealed Might: I especially like the vanilla token idea ^^

    On Winter Apostle: The numbers will strongly depend on the other cards for the archetype ^^ Let's start at losing 3 life per turn instead of 4 maybe, then depending on how strong the archetype itself is we may twitch the numbers in development. (Admitting the card itself ends up in the skeleton.) ^^

    @TezzeretofCarmot21 I'd say it's an uncommon for complexity but five mana is really a lot considering psylian life should be a somehow difficult ressource to get. I think it should be fine at "2B, Pay 2 psylian life" for instance ^^ I'm pretty sure "spell" refers to the cards on the stack so you won't find some in your deck. I believe you mean nonland?
This discussion has been closed.