MTG Cardsmith Community Forums
SDC #1: Game Night 2.0
Hello everyone and welcome to a series of challenges I am calling Supplemental Design Challenges (or SDC for short.) These challenges are going to happen (hopefully) monthly and tap into an area of Magic: The Gathering products that I don't see covered much in the MTGCS community: Supplemental Products. That is, any MTG product related to the card game that is not a new standard set (Duel Decks, From the Vault, Signature Spellbooks, Masters Sets, etc.). In these challenges, you will be tasked with designing your own version of one of these supplemental products. (well, I'll never be asking you to design an entire set). So, for the first SDC, the SDC of December 2018, my challenge to you all is to create the second installation in the Magic Game Night series.
What is Magic Game Night? Well, as described by Wizards,"[it]t's an out-of-the-box introductory multiplayer Magic experience in a way similar to Planeswalker Decks. But for multiplayer." So, your job is to design a new Game Night that takes the original idea and improves upon it realistically.
Here's some general information on the product:
The original Magic Game Night included the following:
- A Game Night play guide and rulebook.
- Five 60 card decks, each containing an exclusive Mythic Rare not available anywhere else.
- 15 Double-Sided Tokens
- 5 Spindown d20s
- A cardboard punchout sheet with d20 placemats and +1/+1 counters.
Original MSRP: $39.99
What the Cheapest Sellers were pricing it at: $29.99
Here's what the public generally said about the product:
What was generally positively criticized by the public about the original Game Night?
- The exclusive mythic rare cards are well designed and balanced for multipalyer format and have implications in the popular commander format. In fact, many are reminded of the "made for commander" exclusive cards in commander precon decks when they see these cards.
-The decks contained a few cards seeing competitive standard play. At least there are a small number pieces here for decks outside the built-in gameplay experience provided by the product.
-The exclusive mythics and standard-playable cards easily make back the MSRP of the product, and that's before even factoring in the other cards included in the decks.
-The product offers an experience that cannot be mimicked at such a low price. If you were to build your own set of five casual decks to play with friends in a way similar to Game Night, even if you used other people's lists or budget options, there is almost no easy, reasonable way to get that to cost at or under this product's MSRP.
What was generally negatively criticized by the public about the original Game Night?
- The card pool of the decks only drew from the recent standard formats, rather than use cards from across Magic history. This product is not designed with a particular format legality in mind, so why should the card pool be almost entirely standard legal?
- All the decks included in the product are mono-color, and as such the decks tend to play rather linearly. Similarly to the era of cards selected, why did the company that can print virtually any card choose to go with mono-color decks rather than two (or possibly even 3+) color combinations?
-The basic nature of the construction of the decks, even beyond the color combinations and included cards, results in very basic gameplay akin to playing with an intro deck or planeswalker deck. The decks don't fully represent the potential, intrigue, and excitement of Magic, even for casual and new players.
-The cards included have been seen in multiple other supplemental products across the past year, such as the Spellslinger Starter Kit, Explorers of Ixalan, and planeswalker decks. They're starting to get repetitive and old to be seen in every preconstructed product.
Here's what you're expected to do:
Use the feedback above to craft your own Game Night product. You decide the MSRP, the cards you include, what exclusives you'll provide, just about anything! The only requirement is you keep the product's original idea—a multiplayer Magic experience, right out of the box—in tact.
In your entry you should include:
- A list of what's included in your Game Night
- Decklists for each deck in the product
- A visual spoiler of any new cards you cardsmithed for the product
- An MSRP for your product
- Any additional information or insight you wish to give into the design or promotion of your Game NIght
Judging will be based upon:
- The realism of your includes in the product (for example, don't include $100 bills; WoTC would never do that)
- The card contents and reasonability each card could be reprinted in a product like this one (for example, don't put cards from the reserved list in your product, or give a playset of Snapcaster Mage, where the contents clearly exceed and don't match the intent of the product)
- The balance, appeal, and practicality of any new cards smithed
- The reasonability of your MSRP, both in terms of the target market for this product and in terms of what's included (you're looking to strike a delicate balance here)
- How well your Game Night addresses both positive and negative criticism of the original Game Night.
- Whether or not the product matches the intent of the first Game Night (not necessarily in being a "planeswalker deck" experience, but rather in terms of being an ideal multiplayer experience right out of the box)
Prizes:
* For now, the top three will each get pries, but if there is a high number of entries, I will up the ante.
1st: A fav on each of up to 10 cards of their choice and for me to follow the cardsmith of their choice
2nd: A fav on each of up to 7 cards of their choice and for me to follow the cardsmith of their choice
3rd: A fav on each of up to 5 cards of their choice
Each cardsmith can only submit one complete battle box.
The deadine for this contest is: December 28th, 2018
Judging will (ideally) be done by: January 1st, 2019
I know this is a lot, and I'm not going to be too scrutinizing given these contests are monumental and complex tasks, so good luck, have fun (really, this should be fun for you all!), and happy smithing!
What is Magic Game Night? Well, as described by Wizards,"[it]t's an out-of-the-box introductory multiplayer Magic experience in a way similar to Planeswalker Decks. But for multiplayer." So, your job is to design a new Game Night that takes the original idea and improves upon it realistically.
Here's some general information on the product:
The original Magic Game Night included the following:
- A Game Night play guide and rulebook.
- Five 60 card decks, each containing an exclusive Mythic Rare not available anywhere else.
- 15 Double-Sided Tokens
- 5 Spindown d20s
- A cardboard punchout sheet with d20 placemats and +1/+1 counters.
Original MSRP: $39.99
What the Cheapest Sellers were pricing it at: $29.99
Here's what the public generally said about the product:
What was generally positively criticized by the public about the original Game Night?
- The exclusive mythic rare cards are well designed and balanced for multipalyer format and have implications in the popular commander format. In fact, many are reminded of the "made for commander" exclusive cards in commander precon decks when they see these cards.
-The decks contained a few cards seeing competitive standard play. At least there are a small number pieces here for decks outside the built-in gameplay experience provided by the product.
-The exclusive mythics and standard-playable cards easily make back the MSRP of the product, and that's before even factoring in the other cards included in the decks.
-The product offers an experience that cannot be mimicked at such a low price. If you were to build your own set of five casual decks to play with friends in a way similar to Game Night, even if you used other people's lists or budget options, there is almost no easy, reasonable way to get that to cost at or under this product's MSRP.
What was generally negatively criticized by the public about the original Game Night?
- The card pool of the decks only drew from the recent standard formats, rather than use cards from across Magic history. This product is not designed with a particular format legality in mind, so why should the card pool be almost entirely standard legal?
- All the decks included in the product are mono-color, and as such the decks tend to play rather linearly. Similarly to the era of cards selected, why did the company that can print virtually any card choose to go with mono-color decks rather than two (or possibly even 3+) color combinations?
-The basic nature of the construction of the decks, even beyond the color combinations and included cards, results in very basic gameplay akin to playing with an intro deck or planeswalker deck. The decks don't fully represent the potential, intrigue, and excitement of Magic, even for casual and new players.
-The cards included have been seen in multiple other supplemental products across the past year, such as the Spellslinger Starter Kit, Explorers of Ixalan, and planeswalker decks. They're starting to get repetitive and old to be seen in every preconstructed product.
Here's what you're expected to do:
Use the feedback above to craft your own Game Night product. You decide the MSRP, the cards you include, what exclusives you'll provide, just about anything! The only requirement is you keep the product's original idea—a multiplayer Magic experience, right out of the box—in tact.
In your entry you should include:
- A list of what's included in your Game Night
- Decklists for each deck in the product
- A visual spoiler of any new cards you cardsmithed for the product
- An MSRP for your product
- Any additional information or insight you wish to give into the design or promotion of your Game NIght
Judging will be based upon:
- The realism of your includes in the product (for example, don't include $100 bills; WoTC would never do that)
- The card contents and reasonability each card could be reprinted in a product like this one (for example, don't put cards from the reserved list in your product, or give a playset of Snapcaster Mage, where the contents clearly exceed and don't match the intent of the product)
- The balance, appeal, and practicality of any new cards smithed
- The reasonability of your MSRP, both in terms of the target market for this product and in terms of what's included (you're looking to strike a delicate balance here)
- How well your Game Night addresses both positive and negative criticism of the original Game Night.
- Whether or not the product matches the intent of the first Game Night (not necessarily in being a "planeswalker deck" experience, but rather in terms of being an ideal multiplayer experience right out of the box)
Prizes:
* For now, the top three will each get pries, but if there is a high number of entries, I will up the ante.
1st: A fav on each of up to 10 cards of their choice and for me to follow the cardsmith of their choice
2nd: A fav on each of up to 7 cards of their choice and for me to follow the cardsmith of their choice
3rd: A fav on each of up to 5 cards of their choice
Each cardsmith can only submit one complete battle box.
The deadine for this contest is: December 28th, 2018
Judging will (ideally) be done by: January 1st, 2019
I know this is a lot, and I'm not going to be too scrutinizing given these contests are monumental and complex tasks, so good luck, have fun (really, this should be fun for you all!), and happy smithing!
This discussion has been closed.
Comments
For the decks, do we to use custom or real cards?
Any combination of both. There is no inherent penalty for using no custom cards and no limitation to how many custom cards you include.
What are you confused by?
The goal is to make your own version of the game night pack using any combination of real and custom cards. It can use any sort of deck size, color combination, rarity count, and themes you want as long as it keeps the original intent of Game Night in tact.
Does that make sense?
It should still encourage multiplayer play straight out of the box. Like, don't go and put in five modern decks into it or something. This should still feel like a Game Night product.
Well, for one the card value would decimate the MSRP, and the other thing is 5 color humans and dredge wouldn't exactly translate to multiplayer in their most competitive builds.
- The card pool of the decks only drew from the recent standard formats, rather than use cards from across Magic history. This product is not designed with a particular format legality in mind, so why should the card pool be almost entirely standard legal?
It's better if a set designed for beginner players contains cards that they actually might have in their collections, other than odd and random cards from sets and worlds they have never experienced.
- All the decks included in the product are mono-color, and as such the decks tend to play rather linearly. Similarly to the era of cards selected, why did the company that can print virtually any card choose to go with mono-color decks rather than two (or possibly even 3+) color combinations?
I back you on this one.
-The basic nature of the construction of the decks, even beyond the color combinations and included cards, results in very basic gameplay akin to playing with an intro deck or planeswalker deck. The decks don't fully represent the potential, intrigue, and excitement of Magic, even for casual and new players.
This is designed for new players who WotC are trying to lure new players in. Multiplayer magic is already quite complicated, and if you want to introduce new players, you need the game to be simple.
-The cards included have been seen in multiple other supplemental products across the past year, such as the Spellslinger Starter Kit, Explorers of Ixalan, and planeswalker decks. They're starting to get repetitive and old to be seen in every preconstructed product.
Yes, but new players (the target audience) are probably not going to buy all those other products.
Anyway...
Here is a basic outline.
- Five Decks
- 18 commons
- 11 uncommons
- 5 rares
- 1 new mythic rare
- 25 lands
I actually specifically tried to make the outline very un-rigid to allow for as much experimentation and change as people would like. If somebody wants to make a deck with 20 rares and 0 lands, they totally can (not like that'd win or anything but it's allowed.) Anyway, on the flip side of your counterpoints
- The card pool of the decks only drew from the recent standard formats, rather than use cards from across Magic history. This product is not designed with a particular format legality in mind, so why should the card pool be almost entirely standard legal?
It's better if a set designed for beginner players contains cards that they actually might have in their collections, other than odd and random cards from sets and worlds they have never experienced.
The point of a person, whether that's a new or established player, buying a new product is to either expand their collection or get an experience from it. By including cards from recent standard sets, even new players are getting an experience they have likely had or will be having many times again.
-The basic nature of the construction of the decks, even beyond the color combinations and included cards, results in very basic gameplay akin to playing with an intro deck or planeswalker deck. The decks don't fully represent the potential, intrigue, and excitement of Magic, even for casual and new players.
This is designed for new players who WotC are trying to lure new players in. Multiplayer magic is already quite complicated, and if you want to introduce new players, you need the game to be simple.
This is a more opinionated issue. Personally, I believe there is a divide between basic gameplay and interesting gameplay beginners can handle. I mean, what can an 0/5 defender for 2 really do in multiplayer that, say, Vision Skiens (at the exact same mana cost) couldn't do better for a new player?
-The cards included have been seen in multiple other supplemental products across the past year, such as the Spellslinger Starter Kit, Explorers of Ixalan, and planeswalker decks. They're starting to get repetitive and old to be seen in every preconstructed product.
Yes, but new players (the target audience) are probably not going to buy all those other products.
Did you even see what products I listed? Planeswalker decks and spellslinger starter kits are designed specifically with new players in mind! There's a good chance a new or returning player has already purchased one or more of those products already.
Also, overall, I think I should mention that just because a product is designed for new players, doesn't mean it can't offer a unique and fun experience for established players. Commander decks are meant to get MTG players into multiplayer and they manage to include varied card pools an powerful gameplay.
My Game Night Includes:
- A Game Night play guide and rulebook.
- Five 60 card decks, each containing an exclusive Mythic Rare not available anywhere else.
- 15 Double-Sided Tokens
- 5 Spindown d20s
- A cardboard punchout sheet with d20 placemats and counters.
Decklists:
https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/1529906#paper
https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/1529994#paper
https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/1529603#paper
https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/1529622#paper
https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/1529670#paper
Deck Exclusives:
MSRP: $39.99
Design Info
So, personally, I believe the original idea of game night is fine and appealing, and thus at face value the individual contents all remained exactly the same. The main feature here is supposed to be the idea that it can be played as a set and I wanted to preserve that. However, I did massively overhaul the decklists. Firstly, I turned every monocolor deck into a two-color deck with a heavy tribal theme, as tribal is such a popular archetype among Magic players and something many people can identify with. The addition of a second color was mainly done to increase the amount of support each tribe had available to it and give the decks a minor complexity boost from the original Game Night product. Secondly, I upped the number of rares any mythics allowed in each deck to 6 rares per deck plus three mythic rares per deck AND the additional exclusive mythic, giving each deck 10 rares and mythics in total. I did this to increase deck values a little bit (I was aiming for $25-$30 of value in each deck) as well as provide some more powerful gameplay; I found a lot of the best multiplayer card effects to be at rare and mythic rare. I also disregarded any sort of standard rarity distribution for commons and uncommons. I wanted each deck to get the commons and uncommons it needed to succeed and not have to stick to a strict formula that might limit synergy and overall fun for the decks. Finally, I increased the number of copies some of the most pivotal cards had in each deck, this boosts consistency of the decks and makes them closer to an actual Magic deck experience.
Yeah! I honestly might look into building this IRL.
(These lists are outdated in standard but Amonkhet and Kaladesh for the sake of mono colored commanders.)
My Game Night Includes:
- A Game Night play guide and rulebook.
- Five 60 card braw; decks, each containing an exclusive promo commander not available anywhere else.
-
- 5 Spindown d20s
Decklists:
https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/1532622#paper
https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/1532705#paper
https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/1532802#paper
Promos:
Captain Lannery Storm
Padeem, Consul of Innovation
Rishkar, Peema Renegade
Isareth the Awakener
Danitha Capashen, Paragon
That's the hope! I was hoping to host one of these each month.
Ah neat! I just finished my midterms (All my courses are year-long) and I'm officially on Christmas Break!