@ningyounk On the contrary, I think that anti-life effects CAN and SHOULD be a common mechanic in both Red and Black, but I can see your reasoning nevertheless. About the balance, I think it wouldn't be too difficult on paper: green and white (allied colors) care about stacking serran life and kill the enemy in one blow, while black and red (opposing colors, both allies) would care about trying to counter and mitigate that scaling potential while punishing the enemy, which is something I can clearly see in a Black/Red control-aggro.
Assuming the previous card (curse of Malebranche) doesn't make the cut, here's a second shot at it:
Magmatic Rebuke (3)(R) Instant
Target player can't gain life this turn. If an effect would make them gain life, Magmatic Rebuke deals 1 damage to the player.
(p.s sorry for the wording, it's an early prototype and absolutely not final, but this card should effectively manage to stall time against the scary Life gainers in this set, without being TOO punitive and without taking away the burn effects typical of Red.)
Magmatic Rebuke: This is a bit hard to play as a four-mana card that does nothing if your opponent doesn't play specifically a life gain deck. This kind of very narrow hate effects is probably best attached to a more universally useful staple ^^
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I've been looking into the "catch-up feature" double slot in each colour a bit. To clarify what that means, I've done a bit of research about the types of effects that I think would qualify in that slot; here's what I found in Standard:
WHITE —
- Very efficient creature in combat (e.g. Sunblade Angel, Syr Alin, the Lion's Claw) - Creatures you control get +N/+N until end of turn (e.g. Phalanx Tactics, Rally of Wings) - Put a +1/+1 counter on each creature you control (e.g. Basri's Solidarity) - Create a large number of tokens (e.g. Valient Rescuer, Reverent Hoplite) - Tap all creatures the opponent control (e.g. Bond of Discipline) - Gain a massive amount of life (e.g. Archway Angel, Aven Gagglemaster - Creatures can't attack you unless their controller pays N for each of them (e.g. Archon of Absolution, Forbidding Spirit)
BLUE —
- Massive creature (e.g. Waker of Waves, Citywatch Sphinx) - Tap multiple creatures (e.g. Tolarian Kraken, Archipelagore) - Return multiple creatures to their owner's hands (e.g. Captivating Gyre, Sea God's Scorn) - Create a large number of tokens (e.g. Ominous Seas, Murmuring Mystic) - Gain control of target creature (e.g. Enthralling Hold, Eyes Everywhere)
- Massive creature (e.g. Carrion Grub, Goremand) - Repeatable tokens (e.g. Bloodsoaked Altar, Liliana's Devotee) - Repeatable recursion (e.g. Eternal Taskmaster, Silversmote Ghoul) - Repeatable removal (e.g. Bog Naughty, Chittering Harvester) - Each creature gets -2/-2 until end of turn (e.g. Cry of the Carnarium, Pestilent Haze) - Massive life loss or damage (e.g. Gray Merchant of Asphodel, Loleth Giant)
RED —
- Massive creature (e.g. Dragon Mage, Hellkite Punisher) - Create a large number of tokens (e.g. Scampering Scorcher, Mad Ratter) - Large amount of damage to player (e.g. Volcanic Geyser, Inescapable Blaze) - Deals 2 damage to each creature (e.g. Flame Sweep, Gates Ablaze) - Massive pump spell (e.g. Uncaged Fury, Unleash Fury) - Creatures can't block this turn (e.g. Rumbling Ruin, Tectonic Rift)
GREEN —
- Massive creature (e.g. Arboretum Elemental, Ivy Elemental) - Massive pump spell (e.g. Hydra's Growth, Might of the Masses) - Creatures you control get +2/+2 until end of turn (e.g. Overcome, Klothys's Design) - Grant evasion to your team (e.g. Challenger Troll, Prized Unicorn)
@ningyounk Then what if we put Magmatic Rebuke as a 3 drop that initially deals X (I was thinking about 3 initially, but I'm not sure) damage and punishes life decks by pinging the user?
Sorry for being obsessive, but I feel like a card like that would make a good addition to the set, in one way or another, even if the numbers change, don't you think?
'Price of Knowledge' seems like a good card, I think adding a body onto it like I had might be superfluous when an enchantment is a lot cleaner. I'm going to try to figure out another design for the 'freeze life' design at another time - potentially something that acts like a soft 'take another turn'? Below I have a tweak, a redesign, and some new designs for red and blue.
Cauterising Bolt 1R Instant Cauterising Bolt deals 3 damage to any target. If this damage is dealt to a player, that player can't gain life until end of turn. ---- Purpose: It sounds like it may be better to have a straightforward lightening bolt style spell in the red 'blast anything' slot given your previous comments - stopping a player gaining life for a turn is a push but may be necessary for the set, so this is a design to push that. Alternatively, maybe Skullcrack (or a renaming thereof) could be used in the 'hit a player' slot since it does a very similar thing. (Formatting fixed on this following a comment by @Scaccogaming ) ---- Startling Concoction 2R Creature - Elemental If Startling Concoction wasn't cast from your hand, it gains haste until end of turn. When Startling Concoction enters the battlefield, it deals 4 damage to target creature. 3/1 ---- Purpose: Rework and rewording of Startling Concoction with less of an emphasis on the discovery aspect, although the benefit of discovering it or casting it from exile etc. is that it potentially gets to monopolise on the space it just made. ---- Goblin Show-Cannon 1R Artifact Pay 3 life, Tap: Target creature gains haste, flying, and +1/+0 until end of turn. ---- Purpose: I've been trying to figure out a design for 'red spell that blasts an acrobat out of a cannon for a lot of damage, and the blast hurts its owner' and I settled on this over a spin on Ball Lightning. ---- Engraved Innocents 1U Creature - Art Human Engraved Innocents can't be blocked as long as your life total is even. Whenever you cast a spell, Engraved Innocents gains +1/+0 until end of turn. 1/1 ---- Purpose: RGU slot card that grows itself each turn that can either be a persistent annoyance or grown into a real threat in a 'grow your creatures' style archetype like RGU. Based on depictions of Adam and Eve in renaissance art. ---- Cartographic Balena 5UU Creature - Art Whale When Cartographic Balena enters the battlefield, return up to two target creatures to their owner's hands. When Cartographic Balena leaves the battlefield, Discover. 5/5 ---- Purpose: Based on the 'two blowhole' monsters from the Carta Marina, this an expensive late-game threat that can either swing the board or enable a lot of art synergy. The discover trigger is primarily for flavour since it's a map monster, but it can also trigger itself or be used as bounce fuel.
Caustering Bolt: the description is still saying "Mock the Divine". Nevertheless, I'd nerf its damage to 2, given its additional effects. But I'm not a fan of burn decks so my judgement might be a bit biased. ________________________________
Startling Concoction: Looks fine by me, overall it looks balanced. Too bad I can't exactly find a decent artwork for it ________________________________
Goblin Show-cannon: Nice addition, I like the flavor especially. It looks like a better version of Fling, which isn't a bad thing honestly, but I'm a bit skeptical about its life cost. ________________________________
Engraved Innocents: I'm not sure wether I like it or not. I feel like we need a card that can't be blocked, but in a UG deck it would scale up very quickly (given green's ramp up and blue's cheap spells), so we might pay attention to that. ________________________________
Cartographic Balena: I like how you used the italian term for "Whale", but considering its concept we might as well make it a Leviathan instead. Aside from that, I like the card, it feels very fit for this set and the choice for the abilities is very smart.
Now, for something of my own:
Minimize (U) Enchantment - Aura
Enchant Creature Enchanted creature has base power and toughness 1/1
Purpose: I got inspiration for this card from the artwork here, so it's kind of a top-down concept. I know we have another "polymorph" spell in common, but I wanted to give it a shot. I'm not sure wether this card would need the "creature loses all its abilities" tho, but given how the concept revolves around a creature getting shrinked, I feel like it should keep its abilities and just have 1/1 P/T. Also, its cheap cost makes it perfect for a control deck/discover/second spell deck. Any opinions?)
Caustering Bolt: Yeah, I believe it's the kind of cards we need in this slot to allow Red to survive in an environment with a lot of life gain. The obvious issue though is that it's a bit too powerful, it's strictly better than Lightning Strike. So we need to find some way to make it slightly worse. We could just have it at 3-mana honestly, it's still very much playable this way. Another solution could be to make it "two mana and a half", by adding a little ability like below (it's a redesign of something I posted earlier). Otherwise, Skullcrack is totally a reprint option as well, I'm just trying to see how hard we can push this slot because it's going to be vital for Red ^^
Startling Concoction: In this slot (deals damage to creature specifically), I'd like something that allows Red to deal with some of the big RGU creatures, so something that could deal potentially up to 7-8 damage (an X spell might be the solution here). I'm a bit wary of putting this in the same environment as the Art recursion archetype. Ideally, we'd draw the UB deck towards a green splash, that's why the Fighting Art creature is here (Mossy Guardian) doing roughly the same thing, but this red card might be a bit too good for that synergy and steal Green's spotlight. On the other hand, we do need to diversify the card types of the red burn spell, I'd be down for a version that blasts the opponent's face instead, I think.
Goblin Show-Cannon: It's pretty funny! x) I like the concept and it's super coherent with what the BRW archetype is trying to do, though there are two details I'm slightly concerned with and would tweak: - 3 life for each activation seems like a lot, you're going to run out of gas very quickly I think. - It's technically a colour pie break. Red is allowed to do this kind of things only if you sacrifice the creature at the end, and usually with small creatures (see Lowland Oaf and Stone Giant). So here's an example of a tweaked version, which admittedly is not as sexy now:
Engraved Innocents: That sounds like the perfect reason for the GR deck to go into Blue, it has all the tools to grow it, I think this has some nice synergies ^^ I'm just concerned it's a bit small for what the deck is doing, I wonder if maybe we can start a bit bigger. Also, if we went Adam and Eve theme, I'm sure there would be something much more flavourful to do with it, there's definitely a cool top-down design about snakes and apples and stuff we could do instead, so for now I'm not using that flavour ^^
Cartographic Balena: Could totally work as the late end of Blue's uncommons, it has wonderful synergies with the UB deck but any blue deck that wants to go big might want this ^^ We'll have to adjust the endgame for the UBG deck though, we'll have to decide between either a big green creature that fights, or a big blue creature that bounces, we can't have both. That'll depend on the rest of the cards, we'll choose later ^^
Minimise: That's a pretty fun illustration x) The card is fine but it doesn't have any specific synergies with the set (and the illustration itself could go in any set as well) so we'll have to wait to see if we don't have anything more synergistic before we can settle on this type of design. Potentially against it, the set already has a similar effect that's more in flavour with the themes of Rezatta at common, you usually want to diversify the removal in a given set:
@ningyounk I think I found out some art that might just be good enough for the artist cycle, altough it does need some thinking since there's only four pictures, with the lack of a White card.
The artist is Christine Mitzuk: Would it be ok for it to be a Black spirit flautist? It's supposed to be a Wind Elemental, but the enviroment screams "black" imho.
Fire Elemental violinist, nothing to say there.
Ok this is supposed to be a water elemental, but I'd like it to be a Siren Artist, it should make more sense. Earth Elemental, we can make it a green elf/human/satyr artist.
As mentioned before, there's no white card, so that might be a problem, but I'll try to find something if you give me the OK.
Beautiful illustrations, I'm sure we can find a spot for all of them ^^ That being said, the idea behind the legendary cycle would be to base it on existing artists or pieces of art. We've talked about quite a few artists (and other kinds of famous people), not all of them might get a card at rare and Mythic, so it might be interesting to put the least famous at uncommon. This means that we'll design the cards and then find appropriate illustrations, but we cannot start with an illustration and then try to see what artist could fit.
@ningyounk I understand, altough I don't think that we should make that many cards about artists. Sure, they can be interesting, but the problem is that even if we make perfect cards for the set, would that be worth it if in the end we cannot find decent artwork for them? Hence I'd say that if there's no other option, Art cards can do the trick. But even then, it's not that easy to find art fit for Magic.
Speaking of "art fit for Magic", is the art for Cartographic Balena final? Because I'm really trying to find a better picture for it without taking away its core concept.
No illustration is final at this point ^^ I agree the illustration of the cartographic balena looks a bit weird, but I figured it was worth trying it to see what were people's feelings were about this kind of illustrations. I do think we should look at slightly different concept for this card if it ends up in the set, and maybe switch discover for something less wordy.
I agree with you that finding the right illustrations for the artists will be a challenge, but we don't have to find a representation of the artist themselves, we can use roughly any illustration that fit our version of the original character. As they're just people, it will be mostly about finding one defining trait and finding one illustration that fits this trait, so it'll be easier than it looks.
Ideally, we'd go for an Art cycle at uncommon and an artist cycle at rare/mythic, but finding the right illustrations to depict pieces of Art is much trickier as they need to look like the original but not too much.
@ningyounk I went on a web exploration and Discovered these pieces of art, for Balena:
Very medieval-like, but I'm not exactly fond of it.
Let's pretend the ship on the bottom right doesn't exist, shall we? xD
This is honestly my favourite. It keeps its "Living Art" vibe while also not forfeiting the typical medieval design for sea monsters. I suggest we give it a try?
About Discover itself, I don't think we need to change how it's worded, honestly. It's a solid mechanic, and I fail to see how we can write it better.
Anyway, i wanted to give the new art a try, here's the result (and some extra flavor):
Since we're on the subject of illustrations, I've looked into potential famous paintings that could get their card in the set. Spoiler alert, it's pretty difficult to find good fits for most of them, and on top of that there are a lot of naked people involved in Renaissance paintings, which creates an additional challenge for us xD
1) Mona Lisa
Ok, we've talked about this one already, there's this really cool illustration available, the thing is we might not want to use this at uncommon, especially because she could be a good villain in the story which would require a Rare/Mythic card:
2) The Last Supper
I found it was pretty difficult to find a good illustration of this one, and on top of that it has a very wide format that doesn't fit MTG cards particularly well. However, we might be able to still make a reference by using an illustration that doesn't replicate the iconic composition but still has a lot of characters around a table.
3) The Creation of Adam
There are a lot of variations on this one, but I couldn't find a single one that would fit the usual MTG style. It's possible that we could make it work with a more abstract reference?
4) The Birth of Venus
I feel like there has to be a good siren in a shell fantasy illustration somewhere, I'm just not sure what to type to find it XD I found a couple options that maybe could work as references, but I'm confident there has to be some sirens illustrations that would fit better.
5) The Vitruvian Man
While it seems difficult to find exactly the same composition, the main difficulty with this one is that most variations involve frontal nudity ^^" I did find one artwork that I think could work, otherwise we might be able to reference it just by using any creature with a lof of arms?
There's more of them, I'd really like to find an illustration for the School of Athens for instance. I haven't found anything yet but any two characters walking together might do the trick, really. And there are some pretty famous statues as well from that era, I'm thinking La Pietà and David in particular. Don't hesitate to share if you find something!
One more version of Startling Concoction and a few angelic and various other concepts.
Startling Concoction 2R Creature - Elemental If Startling Concoction wasn't cast from your hand, it gains haste and trample until end of turn. When Startling Concoction enters the battlefield, it deals 3 damage to target player. 3/1 ---- Purpose: One more version of this design in a 'player blast' direction. Shifted 1 damage off of the etb blast and added trample to its 'discover' trigger since it isn't making space for its haste attack in this version. ---- The Leaning Spire Legendary Land Tap: Add {c}. {3}, Tap: Tap target nonland permanent. ---- Purpose: Utility land that acts as colourless soft removal, based off of the Leaning Tower of Pisa. An alternate design for this that I thought of would enter with 'stability counters' and tick down each time it's tapped before collapsing and destroying a creature, but it's probably too complicated for Uncommon - the closest equivalent I can think of is Blast Zone from WAR which is a Rare. ---- Smiling Cherub 1W Creature - Angel Flying At each end step, if you lost life this turn, gain 1 life and you may have Smiling Cherub deal 1 damage to target tapped creature. 1/1 ---- Purpose: A white option for the RBW wedge which adds fuel back into its life paying engine, is a small, aggressive flier, and has some incidental pinging utility. ---- Effigy of Virtue 5 Artifact Creature - Art Angel Effigy of Virtue can only be blocked by creatures with flying. When Effigy of Virtue deals combat damage, you gain 2 life. 4/4 ---- Purpose: A larger creature for an artifact creature slot. The design is meant to reflect that it's an imperfect imitation of an angel, so it sort of has flying and it sort of has lifelink. ---- Harsh Criticism 2R Instant Destroy target artifact. Target creature you control gets +X/+0 until end of turn, where X is that artifact's converted mana cost. ---- Purpose: Artifact removal that can act as an aggressive combat trick, which could potentially be a massive pump spell for the catch-up slot. ---- Masquerading Sin 1R Creature - Devil As long as it's your turn, Masquerading Sin has first strike, and is an Angel in addition to its other creature types. 2/1 ---- Purpose: Direction RW design, basically a version of Fresh-Faced Recruit but could also monopolise on any angel synergy that might crop up in the set in White. ---- Anatomical Splay 1BB Sorcery Choose target creature an opponent controls. That player sacrifices that creature, and each player draws a card. Renewal - 3BB: Return Anatomical Splay from your graveyard to your hand. Activate this ability only if the total sum of life gained and lost this turn is 3 or more. ---- Purpose: A repeated removal design for the left Vitruvian Man art example @ningyounk posted, although the flavour is more directed on the practice of anatomists attending autopsies during the renaissance. The renewal effect is based on the Raid effect from Repeating Barrage.
It's possible to have her Blue if we find a really flavourful ability for her and it happens to be blue, but the illustration we have hints more towards a black character, with red accents (it has a very ominous shadow on her face, the sky is menacing, she has blood red eyes, there is a lot of purple, etc.)
Startling Concoction: I like the idea, it's starting to shape like a sort of Ball Lightning which is pretty interesting. One thing that bothers me a little bit is that the bonus does nothing if you don't discover / blink / reanimate on the first main phase of your own turn. Maybe the two "sides" should be reversed:
The Leaning Spire: Lands have a very low opportunity cost so putting any kind of removal on them usually makes them way stronger than you'd expect. It's particularly true with repeated removal like this, this is definitely a rare (and slightly undercosted at that), see for instance Labyrinth of Skophos:
Smiling Cherub: I'm unsure how well it fits the archetype it's meant for. The 1 damage to a tapped creature will only be relevant if your opponent has been attacking with 1-toughness creatures, but you're supposed to be the aggressor in this deck, and — after the turn you play it — the opponent can just hold back the creature that would be at risk of dying. I do like pushing a bit of life gain in that archetype though.
Effigy of Virtue: I really like the concept you're presenting, I also didn't get it at first and got really confused until I read your explanation XD The name — and flavour elements in general — are going to be super important with this one. I also think there's a way of wording the abilities so they feel worst than they are, more negative. Here's a try (I also made its power and toughness not match so it fits the "ugly" theme in black). Now that I look at it, it might even be too good and need to be white actually, I'd still play the hell out of that in Limited in a non-White deck xD
Harsh Criticism: At uncommon, artifact destruction needs to meet either one of two conditions:
1) It's a very effective sideboard card, it doesn't do anything else outside of destroy artifacts, but it can destroy at least two.
2) It's useful even if the opponent doesn't play artifacts, so you can potentially maindeck it.
So Harsh Criticism feels a bit weird as it doesn't do anything if the opponent doesn't play any artifact, and it's not especially good at artifact destruction specifically.
Masquerading Sin: I think the Angel thing is cute but will be irrelevant in 99% of games as it will be at best a secondary theme in white, and the angel cards are going to be focused in Abzan colours in the set. So it will just act as a Fresh-Faces Recruit most of the time, which won't pass the bar for uncommon.
Anatomical Splay: At uncommon, repeated removal needs to be soft, otherwise the card becomes rare ^^ So you'd need to let the opponent choose the creature they sacrifice, that's the main reason why Chittering Harvester is uncommon and Dirge Bat is rare for instance ^^
I do like the idea of using Renaissance to get spells back from the graveyard however, but I think it would be best suited in white to give it some sort of card advantage to fuel the WU Storm deck. Maybe something like Unconventional Tactics:
As I stated before, here's my try at Effigy of Virtue. I liked the idea of it having uneven P/T, it makes the statue's "imperfection" more evident (In the artork, you can see how the statue is cracked and covered in vines, while also retaining a majestic aspect, so it's very fitting imho), so I kept that detail. But I liked @GameQnQ 's version more, hence I kept the original abilities as a compromise. I also think that since angels are usually white, it could be a white artifact... But then again, it depends wether @ningyounk has a border for colored artifact art creatures. If that's not the case, then we can simply make it colorless.
On the matter of illustrations for famous paintings, I'm on the case to find decent artwork (I'll edit this post by adding more art as I keep finding them eventually). We can simply crop it so the upper part doesn't show up on the card, so it should be an ok illustration reminiscent of the Last Supper.
Theoretically, the coloured artifact spellbook frame could probably be achieved through a touch of photoshop, but we've established early on that the art subtype had priority over the artifact type (every other statue in the set is an non-artifact art creature for instance) so it would be a regular white creature ^^ It's basically Herald of Faith, so that would be fine. If it gains a set amount of life, then it should gain serran life (serran life should basically always replace regular life gain in the set when possible).
Beautiful illustration for the Last Supper! This is a bit of an unusual situation though because that's from Salvador Dali, a very famous painter, that would be like using a painting from Picasso, I don't know if we should go for these kind of artists or not? Here are mock-up cards to help us decide:
@ningyounk Effigy of Valor: I didn't know about that rule about art cards... Then we can make it colorless and keep it as an artifact creature - art angel, can't we?
Ultimate Banquet: I might be biased, but I like it white more, honestly. And yes, it might be from Salvador Dalì, but I don't think it's a big of a deal as long as it looks "fantasy" enough. That doesn't mean that the Red and Black versions aren't good enough, but I feel like Red's version just doesn't fit the character we're talking about. The black version... It's very difficult to see what characters we're dealing with, at least in my opinion. This is why I would opt for white.
Well, sense my last supper idea is coming to use, let me give some Christian insight on the supper. First up, the two colors it would most represent is green and blue, since it's Jesus telling the disciples that what is going to happen to him should not be prevented, and cause he is enlightening the disciples of what is too come. White doesn't make the most sense cause it's a feast all about him, and black feels to self centered. Red seems like something for an enjoyable feast, but it was pretty foreboding.
Funny enough @ningyounk that my wur discover card was based off of Mad Ratter.
CARDNAME (Blue mana cost)
Creature-Leviathan(?)
Renewal-If you were to cast your second spell this turn, draw a card and add {amount of blue mana}
Whenever you draw a card past your first, you may discard it. If you do, discover.
8/9
The renewal is to allow you to activate it's static by itself, and as you reminded me earlier, it would be hard to cast that third spell, so this gives you some mana to make it easier. Hope it works.
Idea for mythic
(Blue or red or black mana)
Enchantment
If your were to draw a card, instead discover and add {u}. You lose 1 life.
Ooh, like that card with the really good flavor text @shadow123? "Remember all those heroes who were cautious and never did anything risky? Me neither"-Syr Carah the bold
@LordTachanka123 The fact that you're not even naming your cards is very taxing for someone like me, who wants to review them...
White token-maker: On paper, this card is useless. 0/1 creeps with vigilance? Why would they need vigilance if they can't even attack on their own? They would need other cards just to make this one viable. Also, What is X? The mana cost paid to cast the spell? Then amount of creatures you control? This is a crucial part for this sort of spells. _____ Blue Leviathan: Let me get that straight: If the amount of life gained or lost this turn is 3 or more, you can draw a card and add some mana if you cast more than one spell, and you can decide wether to draw a card or mill it to discover and potentially making a loop.
Let me explain: let's suppose that this leviathan (We'll call it Leviathan for the sake of semplicity) attacks and deals damage to an opponent. Renewal activates -> I cast Mosaic Instructor (one of the common blue cards, costs 1 mana): I discover, then I can either draw or discard and discover -> let's say I cast a card via discover, then discover again thanks to the two effects of Leviathan and Mosaic Instructor: Would I be able to activate the "second spell" effect from Leviathan one more time? Either way, If no changes are made, I'd say we make it a Mythic or Rare. _____ Mythic URB: I don't know how I feel about it. I mean, it is certainly strong, but it seems off-color. _____ @shadow123 Artist's Creativity: I think it's not an op card, so it's all good technically.
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Assuming the previous card (curse of Malebranche) doesn't make the cut, here's a second shot at it:
Magmatic Rebuke (3)(R)
Instant
Target player can't gain life this turn. If an effect would make them gain life, Magmatic Rebuke deals 1 damage to the player.
(p.s sorry for the wording, it's an early prototype and absolutely not final, but this card should effectively manage to stall time against the scary Life gainers in this set, without being TOO punitive and without taking away the burn effects typical of Red.)
Magmatic Rebuke: This is a bit hard to play as a four-mana card that does nothing if your opponent doesn't play specifically a life gain deck. This kind of very narrow hate effects is probably best attached to a more universally useful staple ^^
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I've been looking into the "catch-up feature" double slot in each colour a bit. To clarify what that means, I've done a bit of research about the types of effects that I think would qualify in that slot; here's what I found in Standard:
WHITE —
- Very efficient creature in combat (e.g. Sunblade Angel, Syr Alin, the Lion's Claw)- Creatures you control get +N/+N until end of turn (e.g. Phalanx Tactics, Rally of Wings)
- Put a +1/+1 counter on each creature you control (e.g. Basri's Solidarity)
- Create a large number of tokens (e.g. Valient Rescuer, Reverent Hoplite)
- Tap all creatures the opponent control (e.g. Bond of Discipline)
- Gain a massive amount of life (e.g. Archway Angel, Aven Gagglemaster
- Creatures can't attack you unless their controller pays N for each of them (e.g. Archon of Absolution, Forbidding Spirit)
BLUE —
- Massive creature (e.g. Waker of Waves, Citywatch Sphinx)- Tap multiple creatures (e.g. Tolarian Kraken, Archipelagore)
- Return multiple creatures to their owner's hands (e.g. Captivating Gyre, Sea God's Scorn)
- Create a large number of tokens (e.g. Ominous Seas, Murmuring Mystic)
- Gain control of target creature (e.g. Enthralling Hold, Eyes Everywhere)
BLACK —
- Massive creature (e.g. Carrion Grub, Goremand)- Repeatable tokens (e.g. Bloodsoaked Altar, Liliana's Devotee)
- Repeatable recursion (e.g. Eternal Taskmaster, Silversmote Ghoul)
- Repeatable removal (e.g. Bog Naughty, Chittering Harvester)
- Each creature gets -2/-2 until end of turn (e.g. Cry of the Carnarium, Pestilent Haze)
- Massive life loss or damage (e.g. Gray Merchant of Asphodel, Loleth Giant)
RED —
- Massive creature (e.g. Dragon Mage, Hellkite Punisher)- Create a large number of tokens (e.g. Scampering Scorcher, Mad Ratter)
- Large amount of damage to player (e.g. Volcanic Geyser, Inescapable Blaze)
- Deals 2 damage to each creature (e.g. Flame Sweep, Gates Ablaze)
- Massive pump spell (e.g. Uncaged Fury, Unleash Fury)
- Creatures can't block this turn (e.g. Rumbling Ruin, Tectonic Rift)
GREEN —
- Massive creature (e.g. Arboretum Elemental, Ivy Elemental)- Massive pump spell (e.g. Hydra's Growth, Might of the Masses)
- Creatures you control get +2/+2 until end of turn (e.g. Overcome, Klothys's Design)
- Grant evasion to your team (e.g. Challenger Troll, Prized Unicorn)
Sorry for being obsessive, but I feel like a card like that would make a good addition to the set, in one way or another, even if the numbers change, don't you think?
Below I have a tweak, a redesign, and some new designs for red and blue.
Cauterising Bolt
1R
Instant
Cauterising Bolt deals 3 damage to any target. If this damage is dealt to a player, that player can't gain life until end of turn.
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Purpose: It sounds like it may be better to have a straightforward lightening bolt style spell in the red 'blast anything' slot given your previous comments - stopping a player gaining life for a turn is a push but may be necessary for the set, so this is a design to push that. Alternatively, maybe Skullcrack (or a renaming thereof) could be used in the 'hit a player' slot since it does a very similar thing. (Formatting fixed on this following a comment by @Scaccogaming )
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Startling Concoction
2R
Creature - Elemental
If Startling Concoction wasn't cast from your hand, it gains haste until end of turn.
When Startling Concoction enters the battlefield, it deals 4 damage to target creature.
3/1
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Purpose: Rework and rewording of Startling Concoction with less of an emphasis on the discovery aspect, although the benefit of discovering it or casting it from exile etc. is that it potentially gets to monopolise on the space it just made.
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Goblin Show-Cannon
1R
Artifact
Pay 3 life, Tap: Target creature gains haste, flying, and +1/+0 until end of turn.
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Purpose: I've been trying to figure out a design for 'red spell that blasts an acrobat out of a cannon for a lot of damage, and the blast hurts its owner' and I settled on this over a spin on Ball Lightning.
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Engraved Innocents
1U
Creature - Art Human
Engraved Innocents can't be blocked as long as your life total is even.
Whenever you cast a spell, Engraved Innocents gains +1/+0 until end of turn.
1/1
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Purpose: RGU slot card that grows itself each turn that can either be a persistent annoyance or grown into a real threat in a 'grow your creatures' style archetype like RGU. Based on depictions of Adam and Eve in renaissance art.
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Cartographic Balena
5UU
Creature - Art Whale
When Cartographic Balena enters the battlefield, return up to two target creatures to their owner's hands.
When Cartographic Balena leaves the battlefield, Discover.
5/5
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Purpose: Based on the 'two blowhole' monsters from the Carta Marina, this an expensive late-game threat that can either swing the board or enable a lot of art synergy. The discover trigger is primarily for flavour since it's a map monster, but it can also trigger itself or be used as bounce fuel.
Caustering Bolt: the description is still saying "Mock the Divine". Nevertheless, I'd nerf its damage to 2, given its additional effects. But I'm not a fan of burn decks so my judgement might be a bit biased.
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Startling Concoction: Looks fine by me, overall it looks balanced. Too bad I can't exactly find a decent artwork for it
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Goblin Show-cannon: Nice addition, I like the flavor especially. It looks like a better version of Fling, which isn't a bad thing honestly, but I'm a bit skeptical about its life cost.
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Engraved Innocents: I'm not sure wether I like it or not. I feel like we need a card that can't be blocked, but in a UG deck it would scale up very quickly (given green's ramp up and blue's cheap spells), so we might pay attention to that.
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Cartographic Balena: I like how you used the italian term for "Whale", but considering its concept we might as well make it a Leviathan instead. Aside from that, I like the card, it feels very fit for this set and the choice for the abilities is very smart.
Now, for something of my own:
Minimize (U)
Enchantment - Aura
Enchant Creature
Enchanted creature has base power and toughness 1/1
Purpose: I got inspiration for this card from the artwork here, so it's kind of a top-down concept. I know we have another "polymorph" spell in common, but I wanted to give it a shot. I'm not sure wether this card would need the "creature loses all its abilities" tho, but given how the concept revolves around a creature getting shrinked, I feel like it should keep its abilities and just have 1/1 P/T. Also, its cheap cost makes it perfect for a control deck/discover/second spell deck. Any opinions?)
Caustering Bolt: Yeah, I believe it's the kind of cards we need in this slot to allow Red to survive in an environment with a lot of life gain. The obvious issue though is that it's a bit too powerful, it's strictly better than Lightning Strike. So we need to find some way to make it slightly worse. We could just have it at 3-mana honestly, it's still very much playable this way. Another solution could be to make it "two mana and a half", by adding a little ability like below (it's a redesign of something I posted earlier). Otherwise, Skullcrack is totally a reprint option as well, I'm just trying to see how hard we can push this slot because it's going to be vital for Red ^^
Startling Concoction: In this slot (deals damage to creature specifically), I'd like something that allows Red to deal with some of the big RGU creatures, so something that could deal potentially up to 7-8 damage (an X spell might be the solution here). I'm a bit wary of putting this in the same environment as the Art recursion archetype. Ideally, we'd draw the UB deck towards a green splash, that's why the Fighting Art creature is here (Mossy Guardian) doing roughly the same thing, but this red card might be a bit too good for that synergy and steal Green's spotlight. On the other hand, we do need to diversify the card types of the red burn spell, I'd be down for a version that blasts the opponent's face instead, I think.
Goblin Show-Cannon: It's pretty funny! x) I like the concept and it's super coherent with what the BRW archetype is trying to do, though there are two details I'm slightly concerned with and would tweak:
- 3 life for each activation seems like a lot, you're going to run out of gas very quickly I think.
- It's technically a colour pie break. Red is allowed to do this kind of things only if you sacrifice the creature at the end, and usually with small creatures (see Lowland Oaf and Stone Giant).
So here's an example of a tweaked version, which admittedly is not as sexy now:
Engraved Innocents: That sounds like the perfect reason for the GR deck to go into Blue, it has all the tools to grow it, I think this has some nice synergies ^^ I'm just concerned it's a bit small for what the deck is doing, I wonder if maybe we can start a bit bigger. Also, if we went Adam and Eve theme, I'm sure there would be something much more flavourful to do with it, there's definitely a cool top-down design about snakes and apples and stuff we could do instead, so for now I'm not using that flavour ^^
Cartographic Balena: Could totally work as the late end of Blue's uncommons, it has wonderful synergies with the UB deck but any blue deck that wants to go big might want this ^^ We'll have to adjust the endgame for the UBG deck though, we'll have to decide between either a big green creature that fights, or a big blue creature that bounces, we can't have both. That'll depend on the rest of the cards, we'll choose later ^^
Scaccogaming
Minimise: That's a pretty fun illustration x) The card is fine but it doesn't have any specific synergies with the set (and the illustration itself could go in any set as well) so we'll have to wait to see if we don't have anything more synergistic before we can settle on this type of design. Potentially against it, the set already has a similar effect that's more in flavour with the themes of Rezatta at common, you usually want to diversify the removal in a given set:
The artist is Christine Mitzuk:
Would it be ok for it to be a Black spirit flautist? It's supposed to be a Wind Elemental, but the enviroment screams "black" imho.
Fire Elemental violinist, nothing to say there.
Ok this is supposed to be a water elemental, but I'd like it to be a Siren Artist, it should make more sense.
Earth Elemental, we can make it a green elf/human/satyr artist.
As mentioned before, there's no white card, so that might be a problem, but I'll try to find something if you give me the OK.
I already used the fire elemental's art...
Beautiful illustrations, I'm sure we can find a spot for all of them ^^ That being said, the idea behind the legendary cycle would be to base it on existing artists or pieces of art. We've talked about quite a few artists (and other kinds of famous people), not all of them might get a card at rare and Mythic, so it might be interesting to put the least famous at uncommon. This means that we'll design the cards and then find appropriate illustrations, but we cannot start with an illustration and then try to see what artist could fit.
Hence I'd say that if there's no other option, Art cards can do the trick. But even then, it's not that easy to find art fit for Magic.
Speaking of "art fit for Magic", is the art for Cartographic Balena final? Because I'm really trying to find a better picture for it without taking away its core concept.
No illustration is final at this point ^^ I agree the illustration of the cartographic balena looks a bit weird, but I figured it was worth trying it to see what were people's feelings were about this kind of illustrations. I do think we should look at slightly different concept for this card if it ends up in the set, and maybe switch discover for something less wordy.
I agree with you that finding the right illustrations for the artists will be a challenge, but we don't have to find a representation of the artist themselves, we can use roughly any illustration that fit our version of the original character. As they're just people, it will be mostly about finding one defining trait and finding one illustration that fits this trait, so it'll be easier than it looks.
Ideally, we'd go for an Art cycle at uncommon and an artist cycle at rare/mythic, but finding the right illustrations to depict pieces of Art is much trickier as they need to look like the original but not too much.
Very medieval-like, but I'm not exactly fond of it.
Let's pretend the ship on the bottom right doesn't exist, shall we? xD
This is honestly my favourite. It keeps its "Living Art" vibe while also not forfeiting the typical medieval design for sea monsters. I suggest we give it a try?
About Discover itself, I don't think we need to change how it's worded, honestly. It's a solid mechanic, and I fail to see how we can write it better.
Anyway, i wanted to give the new art a try, here's the result (and some extra flavor):
1) Mona Lisa
Ok, we've talked about this one already, there's this really cool illustration available, the thing is we might not want to use this at uncommon, especially because she could be a good villain in the story which would require a Rare/Mythic card:
2) The Last Supper
I found it was pretty difficult to find a good illustration of this one, and on top of that it has a very wide format that doesn't fit MTG cards particularly well. However, we might be able to still make a reference by using an illustration that doesn't replicate the iconic composition but still has a lot of characters around a table.
3) The Creation of Adam
There are a lot of variations on this one, but I couldn't find a single one that would fit the usual MTG style. It's possible that we could make it work with a more abstract reference?
4) The Birth of Venus
I feel like there has to be a good siren in a shell fantasy illustration somewhere, I'm just not sure what to type to find it XD I found a couple options that maybe could work as references, but I'm confident there has to be some sirens illustrations that would fit better.
5) The Vitruvian Man
While it seems difficult to find exactly the same composition, the main difficulty with this one is that most variations involve frontal nudity ^^" I did find one artwork that I think could work, otherwise we might be able to reference it just by using any creature with a lof of arms?
There's more of them, I'd really like to find an illustration for the School of Athens for instance. I haven't found anything yet but any two characters walking together might do the trick, really. And there are some pretty famous statues as well from that era, I'm thinking La Pietà and David in particular. Don't hesitate to share if you find something!
Startling Concoction
2R
Creature - Elemental
If Startling Concoction wasn't cast from your hand, it gains haste and trample until end of turn.
When Startling Concoction enters the battlefield, it deals 3 damage to target player.
3/1
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Purpose: One more version of this design in a 'player blast' direction. Shifted 1 damage off of the etb blast and added trample to its 'discover' trigger since it isn't making space for its haste attack in this version.
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The Leaning Spire
Legendary Land
Tap: Add {c}.
{3}, Tap: Tap target nonland permanent.
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Purpose: Utility land that acts as colourless soft removal, based off of the Leaning Tower of Pisa.
An alternate design for this that I thought of would enter with 'stability counters' and tick down each time it's tapped before collapsing and destroying a creature, but it's probably too complicated for Uncommon - the closest equivalent I can think of is Blast Zone from WAR which is a Rare.
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Smiling Cherub
1W
Creature - Angel
Flying
At each end step, if you lost life this turn, gain 1 life and you may have Smiling Cherub deal 1 damage to target tapped creature.
1/1
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Purpose: A white option for the RBW wedge which adds fuel back into its life paying engine, is a small, aggressive flier, and has some incidental pinging utility.
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Effigy of Virtue
5
Artifact Creature - Art Angel
Effigy of Virtue can only be blocked by creatures with flying.
When Effigy of Virtue deals combat damage, you gain 2 life.
4/4
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Purpose: A larger creature for an artifact creature slot. The design is meant to reflect that it's an imperfect imitation of an angel, so it sort of has flying and it sort of has lifelink.
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Harsh Criticism
2R
Instant
Destroy target artifact. Target creature you control gets +X/+0 until end of turn, where X is that artifact's converted mana cost.
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Purpose: Artifact removal that can act as an aggressive combat trick, which could potentially be a massive pump spell for the catch-up slot.
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Masquerading Sin
1R
Creature - Devil
As long as it's your turn, Masquerading Sin has first strike, and is an Angel in addition to its other creature types.
2/1
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Purpose: Direction RW design, basically a version of Fresh-Faced Recruit but could also monopolise on any angel synergy that might crop up in the set in White.
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Anatomical Splay
1BB
Sorcery
Choose target creature an opponent controls. That player sacrifices that creature, and each player draws a card.
Renewal - 3BB: Return Anatomical Splay from your graveyard to your hand. Activate this ability only if the total sum of life gained and lost this turn is 3 or more.
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Purpose: A repeated removal design for the left Vitruvian Man art example @ningyounk
posted, although the flavour is more directed on the practice of anatomists attending autopsies during the renaissance. The renewal effect is based on the Raid effect from Repeating Barrage.
It's possible to have her Blue if we find a really flavourful ability for her and it happens to be blue, but the illustration we have hints more towards a black character, with red accents (it has a very ominous shadow on her face, the sky is menacing, she has blood red eyes, there is a lot of purple, etc.)
GameQnQ
Startling Concoction: I like the idea, it's starting to shape like a sort of Ball Lightning which is pretty interesting. One thing that bothers me a little bit is that the bonus does nothing if you don't discover / blink / reanimate on the first main phase of your own turn. Maybe the two "sides" should be reversed:
The Leaning Spire: Lands have a very low opportunity cost so putting any kind of removal on them usually makes them way stronger than you'd expect. It's particularly true with repeated removal like this, this is definitely a rare (and slightly undercosted at that), see for instance Labyrinth of Skophos:
Smiling Cherub: I'm unsure how well it fits the archetype it's meant for. The 1 damage to a tapped creature will only be relevant if your opponent has been attacking with 1-toughness creatures, but you're supposed to be the aggressor in this deck, and — after the turn you play it — the opponent can just hold back the creature that would be at risk of dying. I do like pushing a bit of life gain in that archetype though.
Effigy of Virtue: I really like the concept you're presenting, I also didn't get it at first and got really confused until I read your explanation XD The name — and flavour elements in general — are going to be super important with this one. I also think there's a way of wording the abilities so they feel worst than they are, more negative. Here's a try (I also made its power and toughness not match so it fits the "ugly" theme in black). Now that I look at it, it might even be too good and need to be white actually, I'd still play the hell out of that in Limited in a non-White deck xD
Harsh Criticism: At uncommon, artifact destruction needs to meet either one of two conditions:
1) It's a very effective sideboard card, it doesn't do anything else outside of destroy artifacts, but it can destroy at least two.
2) It's useful even if the opponent doesn't play artifacts, so you can potentially maindeck it.
So Harsh Criticism feels a bit weird as it doesn't do anything if the opponent doesn't play any artifact, and it's not especially good at artifact destruction specifically.
Masquerading Sin: I think the Angel thing is cute but will be irrelevant in 99% of games as it will be at best a secondary theme in white, and the angel cards are going to be focused in Abzan colours in the set. So it will just act as a Fresh-Faces Recruit most of the time, which won't pass the bar for uncommon.
Anatomical Splay: At uncommon, repeated removal needs to be soft, otherwise the card becomes rare ^^ So you'd need to let the opponent choose the creature they sacrifice, that's the main reason why Chittering Harvester is uncommon and Dirge Bat is rare for instance ^^
I do like the idea of using Renaissance to get spells back from the graveyard however, but I think it would be best suited in white to give it some sort of card advantage to fuel the WU Storm deck. Maybe something like Unconventional Tactics:
On the matter of illustrations for famous paintings, I'm on the case to find decent artwork (I'll edit this post by adding more art as I keep finding them eventually).
Theoretically, the coloured artifact spellbook frame could probably be achieved through a touch of photoshop, but we've established early on that the art subtype had priority over the artifact type (every other statue in the set is an non-artifact art creature for instance) so it would be a regular white creature ^^ It's basically Herald of Faith, so that would be fine. If it gains a set amount of life, then it should gain serran life (serran life should basically always replace regular life gain in the set when possible).
Beautiful illustration for the Last Supper! This is a bit of an unusual situation though because that's from Salvador Dali, a very famous painter, that would be like using a painting from Picasso, I don't know if we should go for these kind of artists or not? Here are mock-up cards to help us decide:
Ultimate Banquet: I might be biased, but I like it white more, honestly. And yes, it might be from Salvador Dalì, but I don't think it's a big of a deal as long as it looks "fantasy" enough.
That doesn't mean that the Red and Black versions aren't good enough, but I feel like Red's version just doesn't fit the character we're talking about. The black version... It's very difficult to see what characters we're dealing with, at least in my opinion. This is why I would opt for white.
First up, the two colors it would most represent is green and blue, since it's Jesus telling the disciples that what is going to happen to him should not be prevented, and cause he is enlightening the disciples of what is too come. White doesn't make the most sense cause it's a feast all about him, and black feels to self centered. Red seems like something for an enjoyable feast, but it was pretty foreboding.
Card Type
Create X 0/1 white NAME tokens with vigilance.
Like "Night at the museum", the tokens would be museum guards.
CARDNAME (Blue mana cost)
Creature-Leviathan(?)
Renewal-If you were to cast your second spell this turn, draw a card and add {amount of blue mana}
Whenever you draw a card past your first, you may discard it. If you do, discover.
8/9
The renewal is to allow you to activate it's static by itself, and as you reminded me earlier, it would be hard to cast that third spell, so this gives you some mana to make it easier. Hope it works.
Idea for mythic
(Blue or red or black mana)
Enchantment
If your were to draw a card, instead discover and add {u}. You lose 1 life.
Artist's Creativity
1UU
Instant
Draw two cards, then discard a card unless you control an art creature.
"Remember all those heroes who were cautious and never did anything risky? Me neither"-Syr Carah the bold
White token-maker: On paper, this card is useless. 0/1 creeps with vigilance? Why would they need vigilance if they can't even attack on their own? They would need other cards just to make this one viable. Also, What is X? The mana cost paid to cast the spell? Then amount of creatures you control? This is a crucial part for this sort of spells.
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Blue Leviathan: Let me get that straight: If the amount of life gained or lost this turn is 3 or more, you can draw a card and add some mana if you cast more than one spell, and you can decide wether to draw a card or mill it to discover and potentially making a loop.
Let me explain: let's suppose that this leviathan (We'll call it Leviathan for the sake of semplicity) attacks and deals damage to an opponent. Renewal activates -> I cast Mosaic Instructor (one of the common blue cards, costs 1 mana): I discover, then I can either draw or discard and discover -> let's say I cast a card via discover, then discover again thanks to the two effects of Leviathan and Mosaic Instructor: Would I be able to activate the "second spell" effect from Leviathan one more time? Either way, If no changes are made, I'd say we make it a Mythic or Rare.
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Mythic URB: I don't know how I feel about it. I mean, it is certainly strong, but it seems off-color.
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@shadow123 Artist's Creativity: I think it's not an op card, so it's all good technically.