@ningyounk Do you think we should post the 10 signpost uncommon examples you posted in the last thread here? I know they're just rough concepts, but it could help introduce the concept to new contributors and I think it would just generally be a good idea.
@KorandAngels we have done a lot of the basic world building, but there's still a lot more to be done, especially the more detailed stuff. Some aspects we need a lot of help on are character building and story.
@LordTachanka123 ...wasn't that the idea? If Gio is going to end up in the set, which I think is a good idea, I'd imagine we'd keep the gist of his backstory, which involves art thievery.
@ningyounk After the uncommons are done, because teh Ikoria precons didn't use any main set rares, could me and some other cardsmiths make commander precons for this?
For renaming Renaissance, one of the difficulties is that I don't want people to see the ability word and expect a reanimation mechanic or something x) That's why I'd prefer Renewal than Rebirth I think, it conveys best the idea of a new era.
Ideally, I'd like something that's tied to the plane itself, in the same way psylian life was rebranded serran life. For example, on Amonkhet it could have been called Second Sun. We might also want to consider stuff like "New Beginnings", "New Era", "Second Breath", etc.
About the reminder text: Sure! I'm struggling to find the simplest, most didactic way to phrase this, maybe I can try to propose different versions so people can tell what they like or not.
About the Masterwork mirror ability: Yeah definitely, we've been talking about this in the previous thread, we're still not sure if it will be one creature that mimicks your Masterwork or a static effect distributing your Masterwork's bonus to your other creatures, but it will be happening ^^
Sure, feel free to make any deck you want around Rezatta, that'd be really cool! Beware that rares and mythic might modify lower rarity cards though, there are a lot of butterfly effects when designing sets
I'll just post the signpost uncommons you made, if you don't mind - though everyone else should know that these are NOT ACTUAL CARDS, and are just mockups to help everyone get an idea of each two-color archetype.
@ningyounk I thought again and again about a "copycat" card, but eventually I gave up on the "second spell" front. Then I looked up at the uncommon themes, and a simple yet reasonable idea sprung to mind:
Also, I couldn't find the author sadly, and I did try for a while... I can always delete the card if needed, but anyway, I feel like this doesn't restrict its use to Rezatta cards only, so it can be used anywhere while also being flavourful for the setting.
I also wanted to make a "doppleganger" type of creature, one that would steal the looks (and the stats) of another creature, but I don't want to push the limits since I don't really know what races and monsters ARE in Rezatta.
About Dack Fayden: It's a bit of a hard sell because 1) He's supposed to have died during the events of War of the Spark (though I'd personally be okay to pretend the War of the Spark novel never existed) 2) His colour identity (blue/red) might create friction with Da Vinci. That being said, we do have room for two to three planeswalker cards and only two of them are locked in: Serra and Da Vinci ^^
Thanks for posting the cards ^^ I was actually a bit in a hurry this morning so I skipped some messages by accident and avoided answering those who'd require posting images as this takes time x) But now that I'm home, here's the image version of the ten examples I gave last time:
Since we're there, I thought I 'd also comment on what my thoughts on them are once I take a step back:
WU Soul of the Library: I think it's a bit too potent, it reminds me too much of Jori En which was a rare. That being said, I still like the idea of helping with refueling your hand since this archetype is very demanding in card ressources.
UB Lullaby Spirit: I still really like that card though it's redundant with some Art creatures which already have Flash. But I think it pushes the archetype in an interesting place.
BR Jester of Endless Parties: I was a bit uninspired, because it's an archetype that's built on something negative (paying life) I think it would need to both enables paying life AND offer some kind of bonus for doing so.
RG Frostwood Chimera: I still like that card, I think the play pattern sounds interesting.
GW Celestial Diplomat: I still agree we need some kind of way to convert huge piles of serran life into threats in this slot, but that really lacked subtlety I think.
WB New World Envoy: I think it looks good, the problem is it's basically strictly worst than Bloodthristy Aerialist. But I truly think this card would be wayyyy too much in a set so full of life gain. So I'd keep the concept but rework on the details.
UR Call of the Unkwown: A priori this still looks fun and exciting.
BG Grieving Statue: I still like how it pull the focus on ETB abilities, but I think we need something a bit more substantial in this slot.
RW Celebration Fanatic: I'm curious to see how this plays out, maybe indestructible might need to be added in the mix, possibly instead of the +1/+1. It feels a lot like pushing tokens though, which is a bit different from what I want to push here.
GU Bewitching Flutist: I feel like there's something more interesting to do with the granted ability, though I'm still interested in that activated ability. It also feels like it could be a monoBlue or monoGreen card pretty easily.
About Inventions Thief: I don't think there's going to be enough cheap artifacts running around in the set that this would justifiably take a slot, it would probably be a vanilla 2/1 for 3 in 90% of games. I do like the mechanical flavour of it though ^^ Maybe the idea of an invention thief could be repurposed as a rare/mythic that lets you cast the opponent's stuff like Gonti?
@ningyounk Dack died? Oh, I didn't know that (but, then again, I know almost nothing about mtg's storyline or lore). Is Rezatta placed specifically in the overall timeline? It seems that this wouldn't matter too much since new information is constantly being added all the while you work on the set anyway. Although, it wouldn't make a ton of sense with another Izzet walker already planned. Is there another roguish planeswalker we could use, or do we need a walker in the Golgari colors to fill this out? Perhaps Vraska would be the perfect fit here since she loves statues anyway.
I vaguely remember the idea of Vraska being here popping up from about the same time the gorgons=statues idea came up. She could work, and would mean that, assuming Serra is white, we have all the colors represented in walkers, which would be a nice touch.
Yeah we definitely toyed with the idea of Vraska as a planeswalker ^^ That's because she's kind of a perfect fit colour-wise if we have Serra in White and we make Da Vinci Izzet. Also, Gorgons are a thing on Rezatta and they are tied to statues x) We don't *have* to make a planeswalker for each colour though, it depends if we have something to do with Vraska story wise and/or gameplay wise as well as if we have some cool illustrations of her.
Yeah, Rezatta doesn't really have a place on the time line apart from "after Serra died" so we can get across things like planeswalkers dying if we want to ^^
Turning things into Art creature statues could be cool. Removing abilities? I feel like she'd be fun and make a limited environment even more enjoyable for all color combinations.
You gain 2 serran life. Draw a card. --- Purpose: Push towards WU second spell. Ref: Revitalize. Decreased to 2 life to avoid triggering Renaissance, which isn't the point (and may be a bit too powerful).
--- Serran Survivor 3W Creature
At the beginning of your end step, if you have more life than an opponent, draw a card. Otherwise, you gain 2 life. 1/2 --- Purpose: Push toward WB life swing. Ref: Survival Cache (-ish). Put it onto a creature for repeatability (but small so easier to remove). Also changed from getting both effects to only having either one. (This slot was originally an Angel of Vitality rip-off then I quickly realised it would be too powerful in this set. Or at least for an uncommon in this environment.)
--- Serran Bugler 4W Creature
Vigilance When CARDNAME etbs, look at the top four cards of your library. You may reveal any number of creature cards with total power 4 or less from among them and put them into your hand. Put the rest onto the bottom of your library in a random order. 2/4 --- Purpose: Push toward WR weenies. Ref: Militia Bugler. Actually a reprint would be fine, but I changed the wording so it can get potentially get more than one card. It's also fine outside of WR weenies, but has a higher chance of draw more than a card in the archetype. Having it grab copies of itself is intentional.
--- Serran Lifelink 2W Enchantment - Aura
Enchant creature Whenever enchanted creature deals damage, you gain that much serran life. --- Purpose: Push toward GW serran life. Ref: None. Serran lifelink is one of the things that is said to be for uncommon, so it seems to fit into the slot nicely. Can be replaced by another thing with serran lifeink.
--- Serran Rider 2W Creature
First strike, lifelink Renaissance - When CARDNAME etbs, if (condition), put two +1/+1 counters on it. 2/1 --- Purpose: Big-ish threat. Ref: It That Rides as One. It originally transformed from 1/1 to 4/4, but I wanted to use Renaissance as the trigger, not just when you gained 3 or more life. This card is intended to be a bit swingy, but if that's too much, I'd bump its cost to 3W and make it a 2/2.
Ooh I never saw those illustrations before, they're really nice! Here's a mock-up to get a sense of the illustration on a planeswalker card. I'm into it ^^
Also, I got a folder full of planeswalker mock-ups for the set. I found we actually considered Dack at the beginning already! We also had a lot of mock-ups of White/Black planeswalkers (Ajani, Elspeth, Sorin) before Serra was in the set. I have to admit I had forgotten about "Ajani had a Bad Day" and "Sorin is Out of his Stone." It's pretty fun to dig through old files sometimes XD
Serran Revitalize: I like it a lot, I was actually saying a bit above that we could even consider the 1-mana route with this, as a sort of white Manamorphose but at sorcery speed. It synergises greatly with the Serran life archetype, the Storm archetype, the Renaissance mechanic, and it even could even be ok-ish in the agressive suicide aggro deck if they wanted to refuel their life or enable life loss by paying serran life. Note that this still triggers Renaissance as you can gain 2 serran life then immediately pay 2 serran life to add one mana (even if it goes to waste, that's still a 4 life swing).
Serran Survivor: I know we need to find new White ways to do card draw but this might be over the line. If Mangara, the Diplomat is a Mythic rare, I don't think White is ready for something that effective at uncommon yet.
Serran Bugler: That's pretty unique, I like it a lot as it not only synergises with white weenies but also refill your hand for the Storm archetype. We'd need to playtest to find the right number of cards to reveal because I'm afraid it would find only one creature a good portion of the time.
Serran lifelink: I'm a little more wary of this as an enchantment. Gaining huge chunks of serran life risks breaking the colour pie, I'd like to make players work for it a bit more.
Serran Rider: I do think it's a bit swingy but I like the concept of a big reward for Renaissance. That's a lot of life gain though, I'd like to be as stingy as possible about gaining life on cards that don't directly need it because there's so much in the set and I don't want games to be endless. We can't have have too much life gain, but a lot of cards will need it for synergies, so I really want to spend those life gain points where they count. It makes me think we could try to make a new cycle of cards with Renaissance, maybe that trigger at the end of each of your turn for instance.
I'm gonna be zoning out for the next couple days and writing a couple short stories about Rezatta, kinda like throwing things at the wall and seeing what sticks.
Story wise are we sticking with Eco’s sacrifice so Serra can be reborn? We discussed earlier having the story be that Gio is hired by Da Vinci to escort Eco to the location where she will aid in Serra’s rebirth.
I think that while they are traveling To the location (it could be Serra’s final resting place in a cathedral) they have run ins with a mysterious group who are destroying works of art and being a general menace. Eventually they reach the cathedral and begin the ceremony but the villains with Lizza arrive. Lizza’s plan is that she will consume Serra’s energy so she will be as powerful as Serra. In order to stop her Eco sacrifices herself to speed up the ritual and revive Serra. Serra returns and traps Lizza in a painting (This could be represented on a white removal card similar to Conclave Tribunal or Sealed Away). Gio is left alone without Eco but Rezatta is saved from Lizza.
I think that this is the most clear way to write the story, it’s not to complicated and leaves room for smaller adventures. I don’t quite know where Vraska would fit in. What does everyone think?
The ally-coloured archetypes are based on the common themes so they should stay relatively stable. The enemy-coloured ones could become literally anything at this stage, this will depend on playtests ^^
Nothing is set in stone yet story wise, so this version is as good as any ^^ Mostly, it will depend on the kind of illustrations we can find to represent it.
@ningyounk Ya, that's why I'd brought Dack up again. I'd suggested him when you very first told us about the set as a potential "leader of the rogues" planeswalker for the set. I was just curious if he was still being considered at all.
@ningyounk I have to say... shouldn't we use the art where Vraska has a statue of one of her victims? It seemed like the obvious one for Rezatta to me. (I know your example was just a mockup, but I still wanted to point this out.)
Ah yes, I actually put this one on the side purposefully because I think it could look great as a sorcery/instant card as well, if we saved it that would let us make another story card picturing Vraska on top of the Vraska card itself ^^
But it does look extremely fitting, here's a mock-up:
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@KorandAngels we have done a lot of the basic world building, but there's still a lot more to be done, especially the more detailed stuff. Some aspects we need a lot of help on are character building and story.
Edit:Like have thievery be the main mechanical thing for him
Hmmmm... I don't know if we want him to steal only art, a legendary hate card is not really what we want. But we could probably work something out.
For renaming Renaissance, one of the difficulties is that I don't want people to see the ability word and expect a reanimation mechanic or something x) That's why I'd prefer Renewal than Rebirth I think, it conveys best the idea of a new era.
Ideally, I'd like something that's tied to the plane itself, in the same way psylian life was rebranded serran life. For example, on Amonkhet it could have been called Second Sun. We might also want to consider stuff like "New Beginnings", "New Era", "Second Breath", etc.
@Faiths_Guide
About the reminder text: Sure! I'm struggling to find the simplest, most didactic way to phrase this, maybe I can try to propose different versions so people can tell what they like or not.
About the Masterwork mirror ability: Yeah definitely, we've been talking about this in the previous thread, we're still not sure if it will be one creature that mimicks your Masterwork or a static effect distributing your Masterwork's bonus to your other creatures, but it will be happening ^^
MTG_Sappy
Sure, feel free to make any deck you want around Rezatta, that'd be really cool! Beware that rares and mythic might modify lower rarity cards though, there are a lot of butterfly effects when designing sets
I'll just post the signpost uncommons you made, if you don't mind - though everyone else should know that these are NOT ACTUAL CARDS, and are just mockups to help everyone get an idea of each two-color archetype.
Soul of the Library: https://forums.mtgcardsmith.com/uploads/editor/3b/83939m4e46nm.jpg
Lullaby Spirit: https://forums.mtgcardsmith.com/uploads/editor/5c/5axl4ht51q7r.jpg
Jester of Endless Parties: https://forums.mtgcardsmith.com/uploads/editor/dw/ci1dm9jz1c76.jpg
Frostwoods Chimera: https://forums.mtgcardsmith.com/uploads/editor/2g/poq9y5jbfe89.jpg
Celestial Dipolomat: https://forums.mtgcardsmith.com/uploads/editor/hs/n3b2ty4o5yaw.jpg
New Order Envoy: https://forums.mtgcardsmith.com/uploads/editor/0n/8sv0v3pu1grc.jpg
Call of the Unknown: https://forums.mtgcardsmith.com/uploads/editor/5t/tkgi82b6luid.jpg
Grieving Statue: https://forums.mtgcardsmith.com/uploads/editor/u2/cos5xt3lprad.jpg
Celebration Fanatic: https://forums.mtgcardsmith.com/uploads/editor/yu/2jxc39emnsd2.jpg
Bewitching Flutist: https://forums.mtgcardsmith.com/uploads/editor/aw/vabq4xkocrdr.jpg
Also, I couldn't find the author sadly, and I did try for a while... I can always delete the card if needed, but anyway, I feel like this doesn't restrict its use to Rezatta cards only, so it can be used anywhere while also being flavourful for the setting.
I also wanted to make a "doppleganger" type of creature, one that would steal the looks (and the stats) of another creature, but I don't want to push the limits since I don't really know what races and monsters ARE in Rezatta.
About Dack Fayden: It's a bit of a hard sell because 1) He's supposed to have died during the events of War of the Spark (though I'd personally be okay to pretend the War of the Spark novel never existed) 2) His colour identity (blue/red) might create friction with Da Vinci.
That being said, we do have room for two to three planeswalker cards and only two of them are locked in: Serra and Da Vinci ^^
@SteampunkDragon
Thanks for posting the cards ^^ I was actually a bit in a hurry this morning so I skipped some messages by accident and avoided answering those who'd require posting images as this takes time x) But now that I'm home, here's the image version of the ten examples I gave last time:
Since we're there, I thought I 'd also comment on what my thoughts on them are once I take a step back:
WU Soul of the Library: I think it's a bit too potent, it reminds me too much of Jori En which was a rare. That being said, I still like the idea of helping with refueling your hand since this archetype is very demanding in card ressources.
UB Lullaby Spirit: I still really like that card though it's redundant with some Art creatures which already have Flash. But I think it pushes the archetype in an interesting place.
BR Jester of Endless Parties: I was a bit uninspired, because it's an archetype that's built on something negative (paying life) I think it would need to both enables paying life AND offer some kind of bonus for doing so.
RG Frostwood Chimera: I still like that card, I think the play pattern sounds interesting.
GW Celestial Diplomat: I still agree we need some kind of way to convert huge piles of serran life into threats in this slot, but that really lacked subtlety I think.
WB New World Envoy: I think it looks good, the problem is it's basically strictly worst than Bloodthristy Aerialist. But I truly think this card would be wayyyy too much in a set so full of life gain. So I'd keep the concept but rework on the details.
UR Call of the Unkwown: A priori this still looks fun and exciting.
BG Grieving Statue: I still like how it pull the focus on ETB abilities, but I think we need something a bit more substantial in this slot.
RW Celebration Fanatic: I'm curious to see how this plays out, maybe indestructible might need to be added in the mix, possibly instead of the +1/+1. It feels a lot like pushing tokens though, which is a bit different from what I want to push here.
GU Bewitching Flutist: I feel like there's something more interesting to do with the granted ability, though I'm still interested in that activated ability. It also feels like it could be a monoBlue or monoGreen card pretty easily.
Scaccogaming
About Inventions Thief: I don't think there's going to be enough cheap artifacts running around in the set that this would justifiably take a slot, it would probably be a vanilla 2/1 for 3 in 90% of games. I do like the mechanical flavour of it though ^^ Maybe the idea of an invention thief could be repurposed as a rare/mythic that lets you cast the opponent's stuff like Gonti?
Dack died? Oh, I didn't know that (but, then again, I know almost nothing about mtg's storyline or lore). Is Rezatta placed specifically in the overall timeline? It seems that this wouldn't matter too much since new information is constantly being added all the while you work on the set anyway. Although, it wouldn't make a ton of sense with another Izzet walker already planned. Is there another roguish planeswalker we could use, or do we need a walker in the Golgari colors to fill this out? Perhaps Vraska would be the perfect fit here since she loves statues anyway.
@Faiths_Guide
Yeah, Rezatta doesn't really have a place on the time line apart from "after Serra died" so we can get across things like planeswalkers dying if we want to ^^
https://www.artstation.com/artwork/N5P1Zq
https://www.artstation.com/artwork/RY8l5E
https://www.artstation.com/artwork/R3aRW
Turning things into Art creature statues could be cool. Removing abilities? I feel like she'd be fun and make a limited environment even more enjoyable for all color combinations.
---
Serran Revitalize
1W
Instant
You gain 2 serran life.
Draw a card.
---
Purpose: Push towards WU second spell.
Ref: Revitalize. Decreased to 2 life to avoid triggering Renaissance, which isn't the point (and may be a bit too powerful).
---
Serran Survivor
3W
Creature
At the beginning of your end step, if you have more life than an opponent, draw a card. Otherwise, you gain 2 life.
1/2
---
Purpose: Push toward WB life swing.
Ref: Survival Cache (-ish). Put it onto a creature for repeatability (but small so easier to remove). Also changed from getting both effects to only having either one.
(This slot was originally an Angel of Vitality rip-off then I quickly realised it would be too powerful in this set. Or at least for an uncommon in this environment.)
---
Serran Bugler
4W
Creature
Vigilance
When CARDNAME etbs, look at the top four cards of your library. You may reveal any number of creature cards with total power 4 or less from among them and put them into your hand. Put the rest onto the bottom of your library in a random order.
2/4
---
Purpose: Push toward WR weenies.
Ref: Militia Bugler. Actually a reprint would be fine, but I changed the wording so it can get potentially get more than one card. It's also fine outside of WR weenies, but has a higher chance of draw more than a card in the archetype. Having it grab copies of itself is intentional.
---
Serran Lifelink
2W
Enchantment - Aura
Enchant creature
Whenever enchanted creature deals damage, you gain that much serran life.
---
Purpose: Push toward GW serran life.
Ref: None. Serran lifelink is one of the things that is said to be for uncommon, so it seems to fit into the slot nicely. Can be replaced by another thing with serran lifeink.
---
Serran Rider
2W
Creature
First strike, lifelink
Renaissance - When CARDNAME etbs, if (condition), put two +1/+1 counters on it.
2/1
---
Purpose: Big-ish threat.
Ref: It That Rides as One. It originally transformed from 1/1 to 4/4, but I wanted to use Renaissance as the trigger, not just when you gained 3 or more life. This card is intended to be a bit swingy, but if that's too much, I'd bump its cost to 3W and make it a 2/2.
Ooh I never saw those illustrations before, they're really nice! Here's a mock-up to get a sense of the illustration on a planeswalker card. I'm into it ^^
Also, I got a folder full of planeswalker mock-ups for the set. I found we actually considered Dack at the beginning already! We also had a lot of mock-ups of White/Black planeswalkers (Ajani, Elspeth, Sorin) before Serra was in the set. I have to admit I had forgotten about "Ajani had a Bad Day" and "Sorin is Out of his Stone." It's pretty fun to dig through old files sometimes XD
@LyndonF
Serran Revitalize: I like it a lot, I was actually saying a bit above that we could even consider the 1-mana route with this, as a sort of white Manamorphose but at sorcery speed. It synergises greatly with the Serran life archetype, the Storm archetype, the Renaissance mechanic, and it even could even be ok-ish in the agressive suicide aggro deck if they wanted to refuel their life or enable life loss by paying serran life.
Note that this still triggers Renaissance as you can gain 2 serran life then immediately pay 2 serran life to add one mana (even if it goes to waste, that's still a 4 life swing).
Serran Survivor: I know we need to find new White ways to do card draw but this might be over the line. If Mangara, the Diplomat is a Mythic rare, I don't think White is ready for something that effective at uncommon yet.
Serran Bugler: That's pretty unique, I like it a lot as it not only synergises with white weenies but also refill your hand for the Storm archetype. We'd need to playtest to find the right number of cards to reveal because I'm afraid it would find only one creature a good portion of the time.
Serran lifelink: I'm a little more wary of this as an enchantment. Gaining huge chunks of serran life risks breaking the colour pie, I'd like to make players work for it a bit more.
Serran Rider: I do think it's a bit swingy but I like the concept of a big reward for Renaissance. That's a lot of life gain though, I'd like to be as stingy as possible about gaining life on cards that don't directly need it because there's so much in the set and I don't want games to be endless. We can't have have too much life gain, but a lot of cards will need it for synergies, so I really want to spend those life gain points where they count. It makes me think we could try to make a new cycle of cards with Renaissance, maybe that trigger at the end of each of your turn for instance.
Before I start, are the current draft archetypes and themes going to stay that way?
I think that this is the most clear way to write the story, it’s not to complicated and leaves room for smaller adventures. I don’t quite know where Vraska would fit in. What does everyone think?
https://mtgcardsmith.com/view/still-life-2
The ally-coloured archetypes are based on the common themes so they should stay relatively stable. The enemy-coloured ones could become literally anything at this stage, this will depend on playtests ^^
@IzItTru
Nothing is set in stone yet story wise, so this version is as good as any ^^ Mostly, it will depend on the kind of illustrations we can find to represent it.
The-DM
Still Life is a little too restrictive for an uncommon, for instance we have this card already at common which compares much more favourably:
Ya, that's why I'd brought Dack up again. I'd suggested him when you very first told us about the set as a potential "leader of the rogues" planeswalker for the set. I was just curious if he was still being considered at all.
Vraska could be really neat.
Ah yes, I actually put this one on the side purposefully because I think it could look great as a sorcery/instant card as well, if we saved it that would let us make another story card picturing Vraska on top of the Vraska card itself ^^
But it does look extremely fitting, here's a mock-up: