I'm starting to think that the "whenever you gain life, put a +1/+1 counter on it" creature of the set might want to be monowhite actually, because the green-white deck will also want to pick it up (and it's a very fun effect we should totally have in the set). Here's my latest try at the white/black slot:
I'm unsure it's really fitting the archetype though, I have a feeling it will be more controlling and much less about beatdown. Maybe this could be monoblack-ish?
No, I also think Renewal is fine but I'd say it's borderline on the reanimating flavour. I believe its meaning is really more abstract than physically applicable to a dead creature because you wouldn't say you "renewed" a zombie, but I'm pretty sure half the synonyms would cross that line.
@ningyounk I got an idea: let's name the "Reinassance" ability Unison. It gives the idea of something that "sums up" something of the same type (life, that is). It's also a fitting term for a plane that is all about art, which includes Music.
@ningyounk Yeah. That makes sense. I also think that that card seems much closer to mono-black (as long as you change vigilance).
What if the WB slot was this:
Golden Envoy 1WB Creature - Angel
Flying Renaissance - At the beginning of each end step, if the sum of all life gained and lost this turn is 3 or more, put a +1/+1 counter on Golden Envoy. 3/3
I just used the name Renaissance as a placeholder for now.
I don't know about Unison, it makes me think of creatures coming together which sounds more fitting for a Boros-style mechanic than what's happening here. We could explore other flavours than Renaissance for this mechanic, but I'm not sure unity would be a good fit.
Yeah, actually using a Renaissance trigger would be a simple way of caring about life swings in general ^^ I'd like to explore less midrange-y and more controll-y options as well in this slot.
On a related note, it makes me think it could make a cool rare or mythic rare to have a card that has some kind of Super-Renaissance trigger that cares about having a massive life swing like 10 life instead of 3, for a ridiculous reward. For instance:
I’m not sure if this fits into the WB control theme, but...
Golden Envoy 1WB Creature - Angel
Flying Renaissance - At the beginning of your end step, if the sum of all life gained and lost this turn is 3 or more, each opponent discards a card and you gain 3 life. 3/2 ———— On another note, I just thought of another design:
Artist’s Prison 1W Enchantment
Renaissance - As long as the sun of all life gained and lost this turn is 3 or more, creature’s your opponents control can’t attack you unless their controller pays {2}.
————
and another:
Revoke Licence 1W (Maybe W) Enchantment - Aura
Enchant art or masterwork
Enchanted permanent can’t attack or block and its activated abilities can’t be activated.
Also, @ningyounk I wanted to give the possible card a bit more flavor so I added a quote from Teliodes, the Inquisitor General of the church of serra. So if the card does make the cut, we could add him as a possible Legendary card.
The name is VAGUELY inspired by the figure of Tomás de Torquemada, the infamous inquisitor general of the Spanish Inquisition in 1483-1492 (so it is chronologically correct, given how the reinassance started in the 14th century)
Yeah my involvement in this thread is directly proportional to how much I struggle with writing my thesis xD Yesterday was a baaaaaaaaaad day, let me tell you >.<
Golden Envoy: I really like the discard version, I feel like this kind of more value-oriented card is more in line with the feel I'm expected for this archetype. It's reminding me of the WB value archetype from Aether Revolt which had this card as its signpost:
I know the cards have very little in common, but the idea is that you generate more and more value over the turns, and I think that would work nicely.
Serran Prison: It would require you produce life swings before the opponent's combat step on their turn, I think it's a bit too hard to do, I usually prefer designs that have value post-combat on your turn so you can always try to attack to trigger Renaissance.
Revoke Licence: That's a bit too narrow to take a slot, I think. When hating on themes of the set, I think we need to be a little more subtle so it doesn't prevent people from having fun with the new mechanics and themes as well as not being too parasitic (this card does virtually nothing if your opponent doesn't play masterwork or Art creatures, which you have zero control over and is actually very possible.)
Renewal/Renaissance is an ability word, if you write it like that it means it's a keyword so every card with Renaissance would make the opponent discard a card and we wouldn't be able to change the effect. This means that you either use the Renewal ability word and you consistently care about a change of 3 life or, if you really want to care about a different threshold, you must leave the Renewal ability word out (e.g. see my Golden Gates Warden above).
I think the card is a little strong because it triggers Renaissance by itself if it hits the oppponent with lifelink. It also could be monoblack, it needs a bit more white.
I like the idea of a famous inquisitor, it's very on point with the flavour we're trying to get I feel ^^
@ningyounk So how would you like my WB card? I didn't want to copycat @shadow123's version, giving it a more stable effect. I agree that it's not perfect, but what would you add or remove from it, in order to make it a proper WB?
Well I'm not entirely sure, but I think that it's safe to say: • Keep the regular Renewal threshold of 3 life to get less confusing. • Remove lifelink because it's a bit too synergistic with itself. • Make it more White.
Then, I don't know, I've been trying myself but I haven't find a combination I really like yet. It could work on an enchantment as well.
Some more ideas for blue, and hopefully less pushed this time:
--- Opt to Discover 1U Instant
Discover. Draw a card. --- Purpose: Push towards UR discover primarily, as well as WU second spell. Ref: Opt, which is a common. But since you can flash in stuff, it's at least an uncommon and I bumped up the cost. Can be bumped down to just U if needed.
--- Shimmering Art Chimera 3U Creature - Art Flying At the beginning of your upkeep, return up to one other target creature to your hand. 3/2 --- Purpose: Nudge towards UB art. It is noted that this card isn't an exciting reason to play said archetype, but will act as a good signal. Ref: Shimmering Chimera but Art instead of enchantment.
--- Sage of the Art 4U Creature - Art Whenever CARDNAME or another Art creature etbs, you may draw a card. If you do, discard a card. 2/5 --- Purpose: Push towards UB Art with a repeatable looting engine. Ref: Sage of the Falls, Shoal Kraken. Their triggers are quite similar, and since the frequency of Art creatures is probably between the number of enchantments in TBD and the number of non-human creatures in ELD (I guessed here but it seems reasonable), I left the trigger as it is. I took the stats from the Sage since it can trigger from itself.
--- Masterful Counterspell 1UU Instant
This spell costs 1 less to cast if you control a Masterwork. Counter target spell. --- Purpose: Push toward UG Masterwork with a potential actual counterspell. Ref: Wizard's Retort, and potentially Lookout's Dispersal. Note: I was originally thinking of a 1U Mana Leak that countered the spell if its controller didn't have an Art/Masterwork, but quickly realised it would be too parasitic.
@ningyounk The other two designs I made were definitely very specific. So, does the Orzhov idea look somewhat like what the Orzhov uncommon slot would look like? Is there anything else you’d like me to experiment with there?
I’m going to focus on another one that you said you had some problems with too-
Jester of Endless Parties BR Creature - Human Rogue
Haste
Whenever you lose life, Jester of Endless Parties gets +2/+0 until end of turn. 2/1
Maybe there could be an ability that lets you pay life here as well?
Opt to Discover: The idea is there, the only issue is that there is already a common spell doing the same thing but strictly worse so I'd like to find a new angle:
Shimmering Art Chimera: I really like it, Blue could definitely use a card like that for the UB archetype, and it would also be useful for WU storm and even would help recasting spells with Masterwork if you lose it.
Sage of the Art: I think this kind of effect would go really well with what the Art deck is trying to do, in particular due to its affinity with the graveyard and recursion spell (on top of that, it would synergise well with a self-mill secondary theme). I might underestimate Sage of the Falls and Shoal Kraken but I was never very impressed with them. On the other hand, a 2-mana creature à la Plloywog Symbiote is probably a bit much, especially because recurring Art is going to be easier and less dangerous than Mutate. So I tried a slightly more pushed version that's one mana less and can consistently loot at least once every turn to get you going (it's inspired by Inspired Sprite):
Masterful Counterspell: The Masterwork deck is definitely the archetype that would benefit the most from a good counterspell in order to protect their masterwork, but I would also like to see if we can find a cool design that's useful in a vacuum for this slot, something that any deck playing counterspells would want. If we can't find something interesting, I'm definitely keeping that one ready to try ^^
For the Orzhov slot: I'm really digging the idea of the discard on Renaissance trigger so far, but I'm failing to make it a proper white/black card. Maybe it wants to be just a monoblack card that black/red would also want to play?
For the Rakdos slot: We need to be SUPER careful about "whenever you lose life" triggers because there are cards around that just say "Pay N life: Effect" and, doing a life-matters set, we're kind of bound to make one at rare or Mythic at some point. Basically effects with this trigger must not stack so they either must be limited to once per turn or do something that is redundant like giving a keyword ability, etc. I could see a world where it could be "Whenever you lose life, target creature gains keyword" or "target creature becomes a N/N until end of turn" but it can't stack more than this.
@ningyounk In my defense, many angels have Flying and Lifelink, while the Renewal effect is essentially just black. So technically, my card is more white than it is black... I could just put the Renewal treshold back to 3, but then again... This card is 2/2, it wouldn't activate reinassance by itself, and I'm not confident by making it a 1/2. Maybe 1/3, but then again, I'm sure that at this point it would be useless.
Some ideas I thought of for a few colours (primarily black) to fill the uncommon requirements:
Serran Intervention W Instant Target creature gains indestructible until end of turn. Whenever target creature is dealt damage this turn gain 2 serran life. ---- Purpose: Fills the need for a cheap protective spell for White. Of note is that the serran life gain on this could trigger multiple times in a turn from multiple blockers or targeting your own creature with damage. ---- Caustic Critic 2BB Creature - Snake Noble Whenever an Art enters the battlefield under your control, target creature gets -2/-2 until end of turn. 2/3 ---- Purpose: Repeatable removal for Black that gets more powerful in an Art recursion archetype. Takes from Orc Sureshot for triggering on creature etbs, but with a bumped up minus since it relies on Arts specifically coming out. Also it dies exactly to Skewer the Critics. ---- Soul Rending Melody 2B Creature - Art Horror When Soul Rending Melody enters the battlefield, other creatures get -1/-1 until end of turn. Renaissance - When Soul Rending Melody enters the battlefield, if the sum of all life gained and lost this turn is 3 or more, other creatures get -1/-1 until end of turn. 1/1 ---- Purpose: Fulfills Black's need for a -X/-X to all creatures until end of turn, while also giving an Art body that cares about life which are separate aspects relevant in two of Black's archetypes. ---- Dueling Ballads 1BB Sorcery Return target creature card from your graveyard to the battlefield, then return target creature from an opponent's graveyard to the battlefield under their control. Both creatures are an Art in addition to their other types. ---- Purpose: Provides Black a reanimation spell that feeds into its Art archetype. Acts like Exhume, but with a greater mana cost to balance the fact that the caster chooses both creatures that are returned, which will ideally be biased in their favour. ---- Haphazard Fire Dancer 1R Creature - Human Artist Masterwork. Your Masterwork has "when this creature attacks it deals 3 damage to you". 5/2 ---- Purpose: Primarily fits into Red's 'suicide' aggro by being an under-costed body with a self-damage downside, but also feeds into the 'Even life growth' style by providing a way to tick its controllers health down from an odd number to an even number. The numbers on the body may be a little high and it could be a 4/2 instead.
I don't think it is too soon to be figuring out planeswalkers. They commonly have uncommons and commons based on them as well. There won't be room for Leonardo AND Mona Lisa AND Vraska AND Serra. I would like to suggest demoting Leo or Mona to Legendary Creature and having one be the new exciting planeswalker. Vraska is a more familiar face to modern mtg and would make the set feel more relevant. Serra seems rather central so yeah keep her too. Eco is also a fascinating character to me so would like to see her be a big player. With bot Ashiok and the Wanderer, the team has leaned into their mysteriousness by just not telling us much about them. I think just saying she has ties to someone we know would be enough, like her knowing a planeswalker that isn't in the set or something.
For Renaissance, I suggested 'Breath' in vision design I think and second breath is coming back up. Maybe 'Second Wind.' In dnd, that's a mechanic that lets you take an extra action on your turn, but it is in general a term meaning getting energy again when you already used all of yours. Wind is also evocative. food for thought.
Serran Intervention: This could totally work ^^ I'm going to have to calculate the as-fan of life gain I want for the set to avoid drowning it in life gain though x)
Caustic Critic: Hey I actually had a similar card at common at the beginning, then I said it was too strong and pushed it to uncommon but forgot about it xD From my experience with that playtest, -2/-2 is too strong, we can easily make it -1/-1 and it would still be a very strong card. I kind of want to try it with the double enter/leaves the battlefield trigger though. (Whenever an Art enters or leaves the battlefield under your control, up to one target creature gets -1/-1 until end of turn.)
Sould Rending Melody: I'm intrigued by the idea of having the effect scale up like this ^^ It's not even especially parasitic, I like it quite a lot!
Dueling Ballads: A reanimation spell for 3-mana sounds more like Rare or Mythic material to me, I don't think we can really go under 4-mana at uncommon with this effect. The way it's symmetrical also really makes me think it wants to be Rare or Mythic rare as that's where you want those kind of cards that you need to build around a little for them to not kill you when you play them.
Haphazard Fire Dancer: That's definitely an interesting twist and I think we could try something with that idea, but I have issues with it: 1) In a vacuum, this kind of cards means that you won't play the other Masterwork cards. You put this one in your deck and that kind of prevents you from using the others which I'm not fond of. 2) This specific design is a bit too swingy for my taste, usually you'd get more of a 4-powered card for this kind of bargain, 5-power on turn 2 is really huge. (See Bloodrage Brawler for instance)
3) I think it's a bit too easy to circumvent the downsides, all you have to do it choose something useless as your masterwork, not attack with it, and you never lose a life. I think if I tried to make this card work (the first bullet point is still very much a concern though) I'd make it say "Your masterwork attacks each turn if able" on top of the rest.
Yeap, our general plan so far was to have Serra and Da Vinci as planeswalkers, potentially Vraska or another planeswalker a a third one, while Mona Lisa and Eco would both be legendary creatures ^^
I like the idea of name-dropping a mysterious planeswalker for the fun of it, it's totally the kind of things that could make Mona Lisa scary for instance. I'd go with Ashiok over the Wanderer, just because it might not make sense once they reveal who the Wanderer is.
Second Wind is also squarely in the ballpark of potential names for the mechanic ^^ The wind would be a cool flavour tie on cards, I wonder if there are a lot of good illustrations with it.
Since we're on the subject of Art pay-offs, I figured we probably want a Blood Artist that would be compatible with the Art recursion game plan. Alternatively, it might be an interesting WB signpost:
The WB might hint too much at a token-centric strategy like go wide aggro or sacrifice though
@ningyounk Sorry if I'm being persistant, but here's my last iteration of the WB angel I made yesterday.
Envoy of the Golden Church 1WB Creature - Angel Flying, Vigilance
Renaissance - At the beginning of your end step, if the sum of all life gained and lost this turn is 3 or more, target opponent discards a card and you gain 1 serran life. (flavor text) 2/3
It should now have both black (the discard effect together with serran life) and white effects (flying, vigilance and serran life), so now it should be both white and black. But if we already decided the WB uncommon card, then I'll just drop this one out and think of something else to make. My only fear is having ideas that were already made.
Don't worry, we'll probably try different cards for the same slot ^^ Yeah I like it better with vigilance, the problem with the lifelink version is that it was difficult to block so if you hit the opponent for 2 with lifelink, that triggered Renaissance on its own. It's not necessarily a bad thing and we could use a card like this, but I'd rather have it on something not too potent.
The new Renaissance ability seems fine, I just wonder if there's something more interesting we could do in white than gaining life, especially because that archetype won't especially need it anyways. I tried creating a token earlier, but it's super wordy. Since it's a creature, maybe putting a +1/+1 counter on it would be nice? This way there's an additional loop before it starts comboing with itself.
I know this might be a bit to ask, but do you think you could offer some feedback on the new intro I posted for the music set I started earlier this month? I know you've helped a bunch already, but I was just wondering if there was anything you could do in regards to this new information?
If not, that's totally cool as well. I know you're pretty busy with Rezatta these days, so anything is fine. I'd also be able to help out here, I just think I need to know exactly what you need at the moment... Thanks! (:
@ningyounk the thing is, if the effect were "opponent discards card, then put +1/+1 on (cardname) that would probably become a huge threat, for a 3 mana creature. It'd be something like an Ajani Pridemate but with flying and vigilance. This is also why I opted for "gain 1 serran life". It just seems more of a thing an angel would have, while the discard mechanic is derived from the card being sort of an inquisitor trying to unfoil a heretic's plotting.
Yeah ideally I'd like to see small incremental value rather than a big threat, but I think one +1/+1 counter per turn feels pretty different from Ajani's Pridemate which easily reach 10 power over a few turns.
___
Random design:
I had this idea for a way of counting the number of turns you've enabled Renaissance in a row for a higher rarity cards. Below is an example of how it would look like, but it could even be a cool alternative win-condition if you add "then, if you have N or more NAME counters on CARDNAME, you win the game".
Also, this illustration gave me the idea that maybe the Renaissance mechanic could actually play more into the season theme. This way, the Renaissance/dawn/new era/etc. is simply called a solstice.
@ningyounk the season theme gave me an idea: what about a card (not necessairly a creature) that, depending on the time counters on it, it gains different abilities related to seasons?
I'll make an example, which is VERY broad and put together on the spot.
The intent was to create a land that would change its effect based on how many counters it has, so when it enters the battlefield it has none. When it has 1 counter you can tap it, gain W and gain 1 life. When it has two counters, you add R instead and your opponent takes damage. On turn four you can tap, add B and mill 1, and with 4 counters you add U and freeze a creature. Then on the following turn you start over from 1 counter (because 5-4=1).
@ningyounk the rare looks quite exciting! Its variance is larger relative to other cards (IMHO) since your opponent can also control whether you lose the life. But I guess huge rewards come with a huge risk so it's interesting to see how it'll turn out.
Some ideas for Red since there seem to be plenty for black:
--- Tiny Smuggler 1R Creature
Haste T: Target creature you control with power 2 or less can't be blocked this turn. 2/1 --- Purpose: Nudge towards WR weenies. Ref: Goblin Smuggler. Altered the stats to hopefully suit the rarity.
--- Light Up the Serran Stage 2R Sorcery
Discover twice. If you did not cast any cards this way, exile the top two card of your library. Until the end of your next turn, you may play that card. --- Purpose: Push towards UR Discover. Also show the theme or WUR Storm/Spells. Ref: Light Up the Stage - ish. But the scenario of this card just scrying 1 twice is quite bad, and I don't know what to compensate it. Though I think one of the uncommon cards can have Discover twice.
--- Serran Ambusher 1R Creature
Haste When CARDNAME enters the battlefield, target creature can't block this turn. Whenever CARDNAME attacks, it deals 1 damage to you. 2/2 --- Purpose: Nudge towards BR Suicide Aggro and/or WR Weenies. Ref: none, but inspired by Horde Ambusher.
--- Serran Fire 2R Instant
CARDNAME deals 3 damage to any target. If your life total is odd, CARDNAME deals 4 damage to that target instead. --- Purpose: Push towards RG Odd Life, as well as deal damage to anything. Ref: Slaying Fire. The benefit of increased damage is twofold: it can kill larger stuff, and not change the parity of the opponent's life total.
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Comments
I'm starting to think that the "whenever you gain life, put a +1/+1 counter on it" creature of the set might want to be monowhite actually, because the green-white deck will also want to pick it up (and it's a very fun effect we should totally have in the set). Here's my latest try at the white/black slot:
I'm unsure it's really fitting the archetype though, I have a feeling it will be more controlling and much less about beatdown. Maybe this could be monoblack-ish?
No, I also think Renewal is fine but I'd say it's borderline on the reanimating flavour. I believe its meaning is really more abstract than physically applicable to a dead creature because you wouldn't say you "renewed" a zombie, but I'm pretty sure half the synonyms would cross that line.
What if the WB slot was this:
Golden Envoy
1WB
Creature - Angel
Flying
Renaissance - At the beginning of each end step, if the sum of all life gained and lost this turn is 3 or more, put a +1/+1 counter on Golden Envoy.
3/3
I just used the name Renaissance as a placeholder for now.
I don't know about Unison, it makes me think of creatures coming together which sounds more fitting for a Boros-style mechanic than what's happening here. We could explore other flavours than Renaissance for this mechanic, but I'm not sure unity would be a good fit.
shadow123
Yeah, actually using a Renaissance trigger would be a simple way of caring about life swings in general ^^ I'd like to explore less midrange-y and more controll-y options as well in this slot.
On a related note, it makes me think it could make a cool rare or mythic rare to have a card that has some kind of Super-Renaissance trigger that cares about having a massive life swing like 10 life instead of 3, for a ridiculous reward. For instance:
Golden Envoy
1WB
Creature - Angel
Flying
Renaissance - At the beginning of your end step, if the sum of all life gained and lost this turn is 3 or more, each opponent discards a card and you gain 3 life.
3/2
————
On another note, I just thought of another design:
Artist’s Prison
1W
Enchantment
Renaissance - As long as the sun of all life gained and lost this turn is 3 or more, creature’s your opponents control can’t attack you unless their controller pays {2}.
Revoke Licence
1W (Maybe W)
Enchantment - Aura
Enchant art or masterwork
Enchanted permanent can’t attack or block and its activated abilities can’t be activated.
I put Renewal 4 because I feel like the ability should indicate how much life you have to lose/gain beforehand, but tell me what you think:
(Abilityname) N (At the beginning of your end step, if the sum of all life gained and lost this turn is N or more, effect.)
The name is VAGUELY inspired by the figure of Tomás de Torquemada, the infamous inquisitor general of the Spanish Inquisition in 1483-1492 (so it is chronologically correct, given how the reinassance started in the 14th century)
Yeah my involvement in this thread is directly proportional to how much I struggle with writing my thesis xD Yesterday was a baaaaaaaaaad day, let me tell you >.<
@shadow123
Golden Envoy: I really like the discard version, I feel like this kind of more value-oriented card is more in line with the feel I'm expected for this archetype. It's reminding me of the WB value archetype from Aether Revolt which had this card as its signpost:
I know the cards have very little in common, but the idea is that you generate more and more value over the turns, and I think that would work nicely.
Serran Prison: It would require you produce life swings before the opponent's combat step on their turn, I think it's a bit too hard to do, I usually prefer designs that have value post-combat on your turn so you can always try to attack to trigger Renaissance.
Revoke Licence: That's a bit too narrow to take a slot, I think. When hating on themes of the set, I think we need to be a little more subtle so it doesn't prevent people from having fun with the new mechanics and themes as well as not being too parasitic (this card does virtually nothing if your opponent doesn't play masterwork or Art creatures, which you have zero control over and is actually very possible.)
Scaccogaming
Renewal/Renaissance is an ability word, if you write it like that it means it's a keyword so every card with Renaissance would make the opponent discard a card and we wouldn't be able to change the effect. This means that you either use the Renewal ability word and you consistently care about a change of 3 life or, if you really want to care about a different threshold, you must leave the Renewal ability word out (e.g. see my Golden Gates Warden above).
I think the card is a little strong because it triggers Renaissance by itself if it hits the oppponent with lifelink. It also could be monoblack, it needs a bit more white.
I like the idea of a famous inquisitor, it's very on point with the flavour we're trying to get I feel ^^
Well I'm not entirely sure, but I think that it's safe to say:
• Keep the regular Renewal threshold of 3 life to get less confusing.
• Remove lifelink because it's a bit too synergistic with itself.
• Make it more White.
Then, I don't know, I've been trying myself but I haven't find a combination I really like yet. It could work on an enchantment as well.
---
Opt to Discover
1U
Instant
Discover.
Draw a card.
---
Purpose: Push towards UR discover primarily, as well as WU second spell.
Ref: Opt, which is a common. But since you can flash in stuff, it's at least an uncommon and I bumped up the cost. Can be bumped down to just U if needed.
---
Shimmering Art Chimera
3U
Creature - Art
Flying
At the beginning of your upkeep, return up to one other target creature to your hand.
3/2
---
Purpose: Nudge towards UB art. It is noted that this card isn't an exciting reason to play said archetype, but will act as a good signal.
Ref: Shimmering Chimera but Art instead of enchantment.
---
Sage of the Art
4U
Creature - Art
Whenever CARDNAME or another Art creature etbs, you may draw a card. If you do, discard a card.
2/5
---
Purpose: Push towards UB Art with a repeatable looting engine.
Ref: Sage of the Falls, Shoal Kraken. Their triggers are quite similar, and since the frequency of Art creatures is probably between the number of enchantments in TBD and the number of non-human creatures in ELD (I guessed here but it seems reasonable), I left the trigger as it is. I took the stats from the Sage since it can trigger from itself.
---
Masterful Counterspell
1UU
Instant
This spell costs 1 less to cast if you control a Masterwork.
Counter target spell.
---
Purpose: Push toward UG Masterwork with a potential actual counterspell.
Ref: Wizard's Retort, and potentially Lookout's Dispersal.
Note: I was originally thinking of a 1U Mana Leak that countered the spell if its controller didn't have an Art/Masterwork, but quickly realised it would be too parasitic.
I’m going to focus on another one that you said you had some problems with too-
BR
Creature - Human Rogue
2/1
Opt to Discover: The idea is there, the only issue is that there is already a common spell doing the same thing but strictly worse so I'd like to find a new angle:
Shimmering Art Chimera: I really like it, Blue could definitely use a card like that for the UB archetype, and it would also be useful for WU storm and even would help recasting spells with Masterwork if you lose it.
Sage of the Art: I think this kind of effect would go really well with what the Art deck is trying to do, in particular due to its affinity with the graveyard and recursion spell (on top of that, it would synergise well with a self-mill secondary theme). I might underestimate Sage of the Falls and Shoal Kraken but I was never very impressed with them. On the other hand, a 2-mana creature à la Plloywog Symbiote is probably a bit much, especially because recurring Art is going to be easier and less dangerous than Mutate. So I tried a slightly more pushed version that's one mana less and can consistently loot at least once every turn to get you going (it's inspired by Inspired Sprite):
Masterful Counterspell: The Masterwork deck is definitely the archetype that would benefit the most from a good counterspell in order to protect their masterwork, but I would also like to see if we can find a cool design that's useful in a vacuum for this slot, something that any deck playing counterspells would want. If we can't find something interesting, I'm definitely keeping that one ready to try ^^
shadow123
For the Orzhov slot: I'm really digging the idea of the discard on Renaissance trigger so far, but I'm failing to make it a proper white/black card. Maybe it wants to be just a monoblack card that black/red would also want to play?
For the Rakdos slot: We need to be SUPER careful about "whenever you lose life" triggers because there are cards around that just say "Pay N life: Effect" and, doing a life-matters set, we're kind of bound to make one at rare or Mythic at some point. Basically effects with this trigger must not stack so they either must be limited to once per turn or do something that is redundant like giving a keyword ability, etc. I could see a world where it could be "Whenever you lose life, target creature gains keyword" or "target creature becomes a N/N until end of turn" but it can't stack more than this.
For the protection. A little pushed
Serran Intervention
W
Instant
Target creature gains indestructible until end of turn. Whenever target creature is dealt damage this turn gain 2 serran life.
----
Purpose: Fills the need for a cheap protective spell for White. Of note is that the serran life gain on this could trigger multiple times in a turn from multiple blockers or targeting your own creature with damage.
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Caustic Critic
2BB
Creature - Snake Noble
Whenever an Art enters the battlefield under your control, target creature gets -2/-2 until end of turn.
2/3
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Purpose: Repeatable removal for Black that gets more powerful in an Art recursion archetype. Takes from Orc Sureshot for triggering on creature etbs, but with a bumped up minus since it relies on Arts specifically coming out. Also it dies exactly to Skewer the Critics.
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Soul Rending Melody
2B
Creature - Art Horror
When Soul Rending Melody enters the battlefield, other creatures get -1/-1 until end of turn.
Renaissance - When Soul Rending Melody enters the battlefield, if the sum of all life gained and lost this turn is 3 or more, other creatures get -1/-1 until end of turn.
1/1
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Purpose: Fulfills Black's need for a -X/-X to all creatures until end of turn, while also giving an Art body that cares about life which are separate aspects relevant in two of Black's archetypes.
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Dueling Ballads
1BB
Sorcery
Return target creature card from your graveyard to the battlefield, then return target creature from an opponent's graveyard to the battlefield under their control. Both creatures are an Art in addition to their other types.
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Purpose: Provides Black a reanimation spell that feeds into its Art archetype. Acts like Exhume, but with a greater mana cost to balance the fact that the caster chooses both creatures that are returned, which will ideally be biased in their favour.
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Haphazard Fire Dancer
1R
Creature - Human Artist
Masterwork.
Your Masterwork has "when this creature attacks it deals 3 damage to you".
5/2
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Purpose: Primarily fits into Red's 'suicide' aggro by being an under-costed body with a self-damage downside, but also feeds into the 'Even life growth' style by providing a way to tick its controllers health down from an odd number to an even number. The numbers on the body may be a little high and it could be a 4/2 instead.
For Renaissance, I suggested 'Breath' in vision design I think and second breath is coming back up. Maybe 'Second Wind.' In dnd, that's a mechanic that lets you take an extra action on your turn, but it is in general a term meaning getting energy again when you already used all of yours. Wind is also evocative. food for thought.
Serran Intervention: This could totally work ^^ I'm going to have to calculate the as-fan of life gain I want for the set to avoid drowning it in life gain though x)
Caustic Critic: Hey I actually had a similar card at common at the beginning, then I said it was too strong and pushed it to uncommon but forgot about it xD From my experience with that playtest, -2/-2 is too strong, we can easily make it -1/-1 and it would still be a very strong card. I kind of want to try it with the double enter/leaves the battlefield trigger though. (Whenever an Art enters or leaves the battlefield under your control, up to one target creature gets -1/-1 until end of turn.)
Sould Rending Melody: I'm intrigued by the idea of having the effect scale up like this ^^ It's not even especially parasitic, I like it quite a lot!
Dueling Ballads: A reanimation spell for 3-mana sounds more like Rare or Mythic material to me, I don't think we can really go under 4-mana at uncommon with this effect. The way it's symmetrical also really makes me think it wants to be Rare or Mythic rare as that's where you want those kind of cards that you need to build around a little for them to not kill you when you play them.
Haphazard Fire Dancer: That's definitely an interesting twist and I think we could try something with that idea, but I have issues with it:
1) In a vacuum, this kind of cards means that you won't play the other Masterwork cards. You put this one in your deck and that kind of prevents you from using the others which I'm not fond of.
2) This specific design is a bit too swingy for my taste, usually you'd get more of a 4-powered card for this kind of bargain, 5-power on turn 2 is really huge. (See Bloodrage Brawler for instance)
3) I think it's a bit too easy to circumvent the downsides, all you have to do it choose something useless as your masterwork, not attack with it, and you never lose a life. I think if I tried to make this card work (the first bullet point is still very much a concern though) I'd make it say "Your masterwork attacks each turn if able" on top of the rest.
brcien
Yeap, our general plan so far was to have Serra and Da Vinci as planeswalkers, potentially Vraska or another planeswalker a a third one, while Mona Lisa and Eco would both be legendary creatures ^^
I like the idea of name-dropping a mysterious planeswalker for the fun of it, it's totally the kind of things that could make Mona Lisa scary for instance. I'd go with Ashiok over the Wanderer, just because it might not make sense once they reveal who the Wanderer is.
Second Wind is also squarely in the ballpark of potential names for the mechanic ^^ The wind would be a cool flavour tie on cards, I wonder if there are a lot of good illustrations with it.
The WB might hint too much at a token-centric strategy like go wide aggro or sacrifice though
Envoy of the Golden Church
1WB
Creature - Angel
Flying, Vigilance
Renaissance - At the beginning of your end step, if the sum of all life gained and lost this turn is 3 or more, target opponent discards a card and you gain 1 serran life.
(flavor text)
2/3
It should now have both black (the discard effect together with serran life) and white effects (flying, vigilance and serran life), so now it should be both white and black. But if we already decided the WB uncommon card, then I'll just drop this one out and think of something else to make. My only fear is having ideas that were already made.
Don't worry, we'll probably try different cards for the same slot ^^ Yeah I like it better with vigilance, the problem with the lifelink version is that it was difficult to block so if you hit the opponent for 2 with lifelink, that triggered Renaissance on its own. It's not necessarily a bad thing and we could use a card like this, but I'd rather have it on something not too potent.
The new Renaissance ability seems fine, I just wonder if there's something more interesting we could do in white than gaining life, especially because that archetype won't especially need it anyways. I tried creating a token earlier, but it's super wordy. Since it's a creature, maybe putting a +1/+1 counter on it would be nice? This way there's an additional loop before it starts comboing with itself.
I know this might be a bit to ask, but do you think you could offer some feedback on the new intro I posted for the music set I started earlier this month? I know you've helped a bunch already, but I was just wondering if there was anything you could do in regards to this new information?
If not, that's totally cool as well. I know you're pretty busy with Rezatta these days, so anything is fine. I'd also be able to help out here, I just think I need to know exactly what you need at the moment... Thanks! (:
Sure, I'll pass by and have a look ^^
@Scaccogaming
Yeah ideally I'd like to see small incremental value rather than a big threat, but I think one +1/+1 counter per turn feels pretty different from Ajani's Pridemate which easily reach 10 power over a few turns.
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Random design:
I had this idea for a way of counting the number of turns you've enabled Renaissance in a row for a higher rarity cards. Below is an example of how it would look like, but it could even be a cool alternative win-condition if you add "then, if you have N or more NAME counters on CARDNAME, you win the game".
Also, this illustration gave me the idea that maybe the Renaissance mechanic could actually play more into the season theme. This way, the Renaissance/dawn/new era/etc. is simply called a solstice.
I'll make an example, which is VERY broad and put together on the spot.
The intent was to create a land that would change its effect based on how many counters it has, so when it enters the battlefield it has none. When it has 1 counter you can tap it, gain W and gain 1 life. When it has two counters, you add R instead and your opponent takes damage. On turn four you can tap, add B and mill 1, and with 4 counters you add U and freeze a creature. Then on the following turn you start over from 1 counter (because 5-4=1).
Some ideas for Red since there seem to be plenty for black:
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Tiny Smuggler
1R
Creature
Haste
T: Target creature you control with power 2 or less can't be blocked this turn.
2/1
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Purpose: Nudge towards WR weenies.
Ref: Goblin Smuggler. Altered the stats to hopefully suit the rarity.
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Light Up the Serran Stage
2R
Sorcery
Discover twice. If you did not cast any cards this way, exile the top two card of your library. Until the end of your next turn, you may play that card.
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Purpose: Push towards UR Discover. Also show the theme or WUR Storm/Spells.
Ref: Light Up the Stage - ish. But the scenario of this card just scrying 1 twice is quite bad, and I don't know what to compensate it. Though I think one of the uncommon cards can have Discover twice.
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Serran Ambusher
1R
Creature
Haste
When CARDNAME enters the battlefield, target creature can't block this turn.
Whenever CARDNAME attacks, it deals 1 damage to you.
2/2
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Purpose: Nudge towards BR Suicide Aggro and/or WR Weenies.
Ref: none, but inspired by Horde Ambusher.
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Serran Fire
2R
Instant
CARDNAME deals 3 damage to any target. If your life total is odd, CARDNAME deals 4 damage to that target instead.
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Purpose: Push towards RG Odd Life, as well as deal damage to anything.
Ref: Slaying Fire. The benefit of increased damage is twofold: it can kill larger stuff, and not change the parity of the opponent's life total.
Please let me know if there is anything in particular I should do for Rezatta. Is there a specific theme or something I can address? Thanks! (: