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Tzeentch Deck Theme
The living document is in the word doc attached with the red updates.
- Updates are in RED(in the word doc) AND I know my grammer and spelling are rushed and not proof read, bare with me.
v 1.2
Colors: Blue, Black
Main Theme: Mill
Sub Theme: Ramp Mill, Card Draw, Do stuff at a cost
Rule Focus: Chanel, Tzeencth
Keywords:
Custom Keywords –
Channel: Whenever an opponent
puts
any number of cards from their library into
their graveyard, you may have target player put
an addition card from their library into their
graveyard.
Fluff: This faction has tons of "Psykers" that are masters at manipulating the warp in a controlled manor. Because of this and the nature of BLUE in mtg I wanted to capture the fact that when you have these masters of the warp on the field they can collaborate and get deadly. This is the goal ability of the deck to get as many channel sources up to allow a speedy mill effect.
Tzeentch (Unless you control 7 or more
lands, if this permanent were to enter the
battlefield, and apermanent with the ability
nurgle, khorne, or slaanesh is already in play,
under your control, place this card into your
graveyard instead. During your turn, you
may sacrifice this creature, if you do, draw
a card.)
Fluff: Tzeetch is the master of schemes intelligence and change (Not mutation change... events change). To represent a combination of the mark of Tzeentch, the flavor of the faction, and the BLUE BLACK theme of mtg. To theme that the factions of all the chaos god don't play well unless a huge war breaks out, I have the 7 land or more rule. These keywords can't play with the other unless the "BATTLEFIELD"(LANDS) is big/dire enough. This will allot EDH games, and end games for smaller formats the ability to use multiple faction but make early and smaller formats have a hard time incorporating the chaos factions that are distinctly separate.
Then the flavor of change on a global/worldly note is the rule to allow this creature to sacrifice itself and let a player draw a card. This will allow rapid strategy to change which is true to Tzeentch and also stays true to BLUE BLACK. The balance, in my mind is that you must give to get.
• Capture - (type): This card becomes a copy of target (type) card, it has all abilities and types of target (type) card and counts as if you cast this copy from your hand.
Fluff This is to emulate the theme of Tzeentch bending magic to his will. Using the magic of others to change his own minions. I want this to show his mastery over all spells. but not break the game. I think capture will be a blue staple for this 40k series in the future.
Common Keywords –
• Flying
I choose flying because a lot of the demons of Tzeentch have the disc of tzeentch (a flying artifact) or have wings. This is also to help with the balance of the 40k MTG future many faction have flying things in them an I don't want to have this faction overwhelmed by this fact. That said not everything is getting this rule only the right creatures and artifacts.
• Equip
I have equip in here for the equipment and relics in the fluff. 40k i known for all the gear and though I don't have many for tzeentch (not becasue they are short or anything they aren't) I just don't want to overload this series with gear.
Cards by Type - Sub: (Bold is Legendary, Italics is token)
Creatures
• Thousand Sons Sorcerer - Astartes Psyker
• Thousand Sons - Astartes
• Cultist of Tzeentch - Human
• Tzeentch Familiar - Demon Psyker
• Flamers of Tzeentch - Demon
• Pink Horrors - Demon Horror
• Blue Horrors - Demon Horror
• Xirat’p and P’tarix - Demon Horror
• Lords of Change - Demon Psyker
• Screamers of Tzeentch - Demon
• The Changeling - Demon Horror Psyker
Artifacts
• Burning Chariots - Transport
• Disc of Tzeentch - Equipment
• Grimoire of True Names - Relic
• Staff of tomorrow - Equipment Relic
Instants
• Spell Siphon
• Bolt of Change
• Aura Emulation
• Flickering Fire
Sorcery
• Infernal Gateway
• Warp Flame
• Infernal Gateway
Enchantment
• Tzeentch’s Firestorm
• Doubly Blessed - Arua
• Locus of Transmogrification
Planeswalker
• Ahriman
• Kairos Fateweaver
Land
• Ground of Change
•
The Impossible
Fortress.
Comments
https://mtgcardsmith.com/blog/how-can-i-play-tesy-this
Before we start, I'd like to note that I only have a vague knowledge of the 40k lore, and know almost nothing about Tzeentch beyond "It's the chaos god of change and similar". Anyway, here we go:
- First and foremost, "Warp" is probably not an artist. It certainly is not the artist for all of those pieces. I know that Games Workshop uses numerous different artists, and I also know that they tend to credit them because they're a functioning group. Please credit artists whenever possible, and if you don't know them then please just put "Unknown" rather than something incorrect that might confuse people.
- Mill isn't something that you can attribute as being "caused by a player". As such, the "When you make an opponent mill" of the channel doesn't work. My recommendation for the Channel mechanic's wording would be:
Channel (Whenever one or more cards are put into an opponent's graveyard from their library for the first time each turn, this CARDTYPE deals 1 damage to target creature or planeswalker.)
- "Tzeentch" probably shouldn't be a creature type. While I understand that you're trying to give them tribe cohesion or whatever, it feels unnecessary and cluttering. Imagine if every card from House Dimir had "Dimir" as a creature type. In other words, it's pointless. Use a watermark for that kind of thing if you've got the premium to put in a fitting one (probably the mark of Tzeentch), or just leave it be if you don't. On a similar note, some of the cards feel like they're missing a creature type or something (mostly the Astartes. The sorcerer could probably do with being a Wizard, for instance).
- The mill aspect doesn't feel remotely powerful. You say it's the primary theme, but practically all of the cards that mill just mill one card, seemingly to fuel the Channel supposed-subtheme that looks like it's the real primary theme.
- Channel feels pretty hecking powerful as super-repeatable creature + planeswalker removal. I guess this is just a general "be aware of how that can be crazy strong and don't just spam it onto every card you make" kind of message. MORE IMPORTANT IS THAT THIS SORT OF PING DAMAGE IS NOT IN BLACK BLUE COLOR IDENTITY AND SHOULD REMAIN THAT WAY. As such, I would recommend that you rethink the mechanic.
- Tzeentch, the Changer and Evolver, but no effects that transform (not the flip card kind, though that might fit as well) or change creatures?! This is kind of sarcasm, and you might just not have made them yet, but not having that apparent in any way for the changer seems like a huge flavor miss. I don't know, maybe I just don't know enough Tzeentch lore or something.
Now, individual analysis. Please note that there are a fair few spelling / grammar issues in your cards, but I won't be bothering to correct them all because my patience is limited. I'll do some wording fixes, not all, in other words. Also, I'm not really sure what power level these should be balancing to
- Thousand Sons Sorcerer. See above, the Channel mechanic needs to be reworked due to color identity, no real comment since it's based entirely around that mechanic.
- Thousand Sons. The mill effect has a very high cost for milling a single card. I might recommend increasing the number milled a little. I understand that it's supposed to provide instant Channel triggers and that it's still a 2/2 for 2 and all that stuff, but since Channel needs a rework this could have one as well.
- Pink Horrors. Seems pretty broken, and definitely too complex for common. Goes infinite with two and a sacrifice outlet (the blue horror tokens get the ability to spawn two more, repeat forever for infinite tokens, sac + death triggers etc). Copying triggered abilities isn't really something that's ever been done, it should certainly be rare at the least, probably cost more, might need some changes. Also, perhaps they should have the horror creature type? TBH, this just needs a hard rework.
Also also, Blue Horrors is a very confusing token name. People will assume that they're Horror tokens, and that they're blue. I'd recommend that you change it to "create two 1/1 blue and black Horror creature tokens" in accordance with basic wording law.
- Flamer of Tzeentch. Feels extremely weak. Terrible stats for cost, and an ability that gives your opponents free cards in return for milling a small number? That's awful. I'd recommend a rework around the concept or a full rework.
- Xirat'p and P'tarix. First, you've spelt P'tarix wrong on the card. Second, Channel needs a rework, so the card needs a rework. Third, perhaps that'd give you a wonderful chance to rework the card towards the chaotic-spellcasters vibe the pair have in the lore? I don't know.
- Lords of Change. First off, it's got Channel. Needs rework. Second, one of the main ability employs Channel. Needs more rework. Conclusion: Needs rework.
- Screamers of Tzeentch. Powerful hybrid flying creature for rarity. Perhaps it shouldn't be hybrid. I don't know what power level I should judge this by, so I'll leave it to your judgement.
- The Changeling. Has Channel, needs rework. Abilities can't be attributed to milling, so the main ability doesn't work (and also seems incredibly minor, and could probably be done as a mill increase). Seems like a huge flavor miss for the "Can take any form" minion of Tzeentch not to have some sort of shapeshifter effect, you should probably move into that space. By extension, could use the Shapeshifter creature type.
- Staff of Tomorrow. Provides minor mill. Who cares? Main factor of the card is the activated ability, which goes instantly infinite, and is worded so confusingly that I can't tell precisely how it works, and needs a rework. Also, the card doesn't really feel like it fits with what I can glean of the artifact's lore from a brief Google search.
- Grimoire of True Names. Seems broken in EDH as a repeatable boardwipe with a willing collaborator. Mind control effect seems broken, especially in EDH where you've got a lot of life to spare. In fact, seems broken. Rework / toning down of the card recommended.
- Burning Chariots. Go and look at the card Show and Tell. That card exists in legacy as a deck. This is a cheaper version in any color. AT COMMON FOR SOME INEXPLICABLE REASON. Does this seem broken? It certainly should. Significant / total rework.
- Disc of Tzeentch. Seems weak. The mill is so small as to be irrelevant since Channel's being reworked, and there are certainly better flight-giver equipment cards at common.
Well, that was painful. In conclusion, Channel needs rework, the mill ideologies also need rework, a lot of the cards need rework, and rework is the order of the day. I'd recommend bringing a higher level of consultation / consideration into your initial design (asking other people opinions and ensuring that you've got good base mechanics, such as Channel, before you start rather than having to scrap a lot of work because the base is terrible). I'm going to go and do something else now, peace.
As for the god of change and evolution, that would be Nurgle.
As for Channel, it is true that the damage ping is off-color, so here's a rework I would say it is fitting for the theme:
Channel (Whenever you cast an instant or sorcery for the first time this turn, target player mills 1)
Since I was just running off of whatever some Google searches could tell me for knowledge on the subject, thank you for the lore clarifications. Seems crazy that three seperate Warhammer wikis would all tell me something along the lines of "god of evolution" and "god of spontaneous change", but hey. Maybe I'm misinterpreting.
In terms of the suggestion for channel, that seems like it could be a good idea. It's the creator's choice on what they do with the mechanic, of course, but your suggestion's definitely on-color and functional. Admittedly I don't know what the mechanic's supposed to show from a lore perspective, so I can't comment on that aspect.
Awesome feedback. It is easy to tunnel vision something when your in create mood and don't step back to look at what you have.
@MemoryHead - I agree with you that idk what I was trying to do with the channel keyword so like you suggested I reworked it. As for the artist i'm working on the artist I love having artists on the cards and just haven't gotten there yet but i'll switch it to unknown for now. I think you may like the new Channel as it is more color fitting and fit the mill theme better but let me know. I also reworked a lot of cards the updates are in red.
@Scaccogaming - hey I did love the Tzeentch typing and thought that the tribal way was to go but I also love the idea of a water mark.... Also something you said made me thing.. this mark should actually do something and not just be a typing so I made it a key word. This make the typing more MTG and clean and also has a bigger impact on the game now. Again feedback is welcome
I also added more cards and rules and I removed the cards until the rules work. All updates are in the original post in red.
Channel: Whenever an opponent puts
any number of cards from their library into
their graveyard, you may have target player put
an addition card from their library into their
graveyard.
Changed Tzeentch type to keyword ability:
Tzeentch (Unless you control 7 or more
lands, if this permanent were to enter the
battlefield, and apermanent with the ability
nurgle, khorne, or slaanesh is already in play,
under your control, place this card into your
graveyard instead. During your turn, you
may sacrifice this creature, if you do, draw
a card.)
Capture - (type) (This card becomes a copy of
target (type) card, it has all abilities and types
of target (type) card and counts as if you cast
this copy from your hand.)
These are the odd ball rules for the deck so far if more happen to arise ill up date this post.
The "TSS" are one of the few pieces in the Thousand Son army that still has an actual astartes in the power armor. The rest are all sand filled animated husks of armor.
Type
The Typing used to be Tzeentch but after review comments and thinking how to improve this faction I believe and ability is better for Tzeentch. Instead I now have the typing:
Astartes Psyker
I think for future faction interactions this will be much needed and I needed a way to have the warp entity manipulators to have a type in normal MTG... like a wizard.
Abilities
Because the faction is Tzeentch, I gave them the Tzeentch ability:
Tzeentch (Unless you control 7 or more
lands, if this permanent were to enter the
battlefield, and apermanent with the ability
nurgle, khorne, or slaanesh is already in play,
under your control, place this card into your
graveyard instead. During your turn, you
may sacrifice this creature, if you do, draw
a card.)
And because they are an actual thinking being not just a husk they would be able to use channel not to mention should use it because of there Psychic prowess.
Channel (Whenever an opponent puts
any number of cards from their library into
their graveyard, you may have target player put
an addition card from their library into their
graveyard.)
Stats
The stats of a marine can vary in this series. Yes they all are huge, yes they all are in armor, yes they are super human... I didn't want a bunch of huge creatures that start at 3/3, 4/4 and so on instead I'm using the power as combat effectiveness/skill level and toughness as attrition/resilience. This faction while still a marine is not based on combat but on games of the mind and warp this is why this creature has: 2/2. In theory they use force weapons so death touch has always lingered here but I like the way this card is so far.
A Thousand Sons Marine is nothing but a husk of what it once was before the Horus Heresy. Literally, they are power armor of sand that is reanimated by Thousand Sons Sorcerer. They march across the field unloading bail-fire from their Bolters, causing destruction in the name of Tzeentch.
Type
The typing is the original that I choose from the start. there are some extra ideas that I can play with since they are just armor suits walking around. Husk, spirit, ghost,nightmare etc... are all ideas I have thought of but ended up keeping it simple.
Abilities
These guys also work for the great game master Tzeentch and as such they have the rule Tzeentch.
Tzeentch (Unless you control 7 or more
lands, if this permanent were to enter the
battlefield, and apermanent with the ability
nurgle, khorne, or slaanesh is already in play,
under your control, place this card into your
graveyard instead. During your turn, you
may sacrifice this creature, if you do, draw
a card.)
The tap ability is to try and represent the destruction of the bolt of change ammo that they use. I wanted something that stayed to to the magic of the round... mill, and that showed the destruction it can deal... sacrifice a creature. But this is only at the will of the sorcerer so this became a tap on your turn ability.
{t}: Sacrifice a creature you control, target
player puts the top X cards of their library into
their graveyard where X is equal to that
creatures' power.
Stats
The stats of a marine can vary in this series. Yes they all are huge, yes they all are in armor, yes they are super human... I didn't want a bunch of huge creatures that start at 3/3, 4/4 and so on instead I'm using the power as combat effectiveness/skill level and toughness as attrition/resilience. This faction while still a marine is not based on combat but on games of the mind and warp this is why this creature has: 2/2. In theory they use force weapons so death touch has always lingered here but I like the way this card is so far.Flamers of Tzeentch in the lore are beings of the warp that just ooze magic. They constantly reshape the world around them with this magic as they move, and use this warp fire that resembles more magic then burning fire as a means of attacking.
Color/type
Lets start with color. Flamers have the demon type making this have a black feel to it, and giving this a dimir vibe also. The reason they are demons is because they are entities of the warp.
Ability
The flamers ability is meant to further the mill theme with the cost of potentially helping your opponent in the flavor of Tzeentch, but if this player takes this gift then it cost them by giving you more. This is the if they draw you draw. This mechanic is made because to the represent the flamers magic essence as it changes the battlefield.
Stats
To balance this ability and show the aggressive nature of the flamer I gave them a P/T balance for stats this creature is designed to attack to do its thing. but is so fragile that when it attack (at least with this set), there is nothing to save it. I will most likely take something with it and a mill draw effect will happen. This may happen 1-3 time in theory before this creature is priority to die.
Pink Horrors are insane pieces of the Tzeentch game, literally insane. When they are slain they don't die instead they split into to halves and become blue horrors. This card does simply just that.
The blue horror token is simple as well they are just Tzeentch.
The two are designed to be a card draw at a creature expense to help get the card you need from your library or to just be a wall if you need the protection. Other then that this is, I feel a very basic common. I wanted this to be a blue black but naming issues were there and the Card Smith site didn't have this feature ... or I just could find it, even with premium.
Xarit'p and P'tarix are a cool little duo. Cool enough that I thought they need the legendary type. They are tasked with finding all of the spells and shard of Tzeentch from when he fell from having complete power over the warp. They get distracted and roam the warp and universe for such a lost cause and the fact that they bicker and become distracted doesn't help.
Color and Type
They are blue black for the mill dimir theme, and for the mechanic theme. also all demons in the typing for the 40k sets will be a mandatory black in addition to any other color. They got the horror type because they are literally blue horrors and demon because they are demons.
Ability
The tzeentch ability that is revamped from before because this is the faction they belong to. They also have chanel because they like to attempt crazy magical spells they find during there quest for tzeentch. The design is meant to be a multi pay to play ability. with the scry being two you can cycle through your deck if needed limited to you mana. with the draw you have the mana and life cost for balance. and to make this not broken if you fin what your looking for in the scry feel free to draw a card but you will loss you draw phase . In early game this is a mana limited search mechanic, in a late game this is a find the game changer. still the life can drain you if you go crazy over and over each turn.
Stats
These are not a super combat couple and Tzeentch isn't to begin with again I am basing the Power on hand to hand prowess and the toughness on resiliency and these guys are neither so a 1/2 is what I gave them.
Lords of change... So in the world of 40K, in the Tzeentch army there are Lords of change. in battle they lead a band of tzeentch demons if needed but in reality they are mostly just changing the world around them in accordance with their own agendas. They have no rhyme or reason for these changes to others but to them they have a very specific goal. Later in this series there will be a planeswalker that is one of theses Lords of Change called the Fate Weaver.
Color & Type
Again we have the blue black dimir colors to show that you get something at a cost. and that this creature like the thousand son sorcerer is a Psyker. This is because of the LOC's ability to master the warp and magic. Though many creatures of Tzeentch are magic in nature they don't always have the control like Psykers do.
Ability
The LOC is a draw mechanic on landing, and then to match his theme of change that has no meaning to other then himself I have him up heave the the game by allowing scry, mill and draw for everyone. This is a huge game change potentially this is also the cost to you as the controller. You could be giving the opponent what he needs while helping yourself out. This is also a potential mill killing blow for and opponent or a way to manipulate grave digging decks. Either way this can be as big and little as you make it with the ability using the number of channel creature on the battle field.
Also this creature deserves to be flying with it huge wings.
Then we have channel to help mill, though this won't be able to help with it's own ability because of it dieing.
last is the tzeentch flavor rule to stop it from playing with other demon faction unless the game has be going on fo a long time and the battlefield has "Gotten bigger", and to have the ability to sac for draw which can be deadly for it's ability but then your are killing a 5/5/ flyer for LOC's scry, draw, mill.
Stats
5/5, this creature is a larger being on the battlefieds and to represent this we gave it a strength and toughness to show opponents this is a nasty creature. This does break form the standard on the past cards and won't be the new norm but I also need this to be a valuable creature. This stat make you think do I sac using tzeentch for an extra draw or do I have a 5/5 flying?