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Heya everyone! It's Dragoon here!
So as some of you may know, I've been working on a mega-set for quite a while now (basically just two sets mashed together under the guise of one because story). It's currently at a total of 467 cards. I'm at the point where I'm mainly looking to refine it, and try to actually balance in color-wise, creature-wise, card-type wise, etc.
I've got a spreadsheet of my own detailing all of the specifics of the set like color matched to rarity, creature types matched to color, etc. But I really am struggling especially in the realm of noncreatures and non-legendary creatures (as one of the focuses of the set is legendary creatures).
Anyways, I started this thread for a couple reasons.
1. To ask anyone who is interested to check out the set and see if you notice:
a. blatant balancing problems
b. lack of card variation
c. lack of creative vision
d. anything else
2. To ask anyone who is interested to check out the set and find some cards you really enjoy!
3. To ask anyone who is interested to check out the set and find some characters you'd like to see a little bit more of (so if I have to make more cards, I can work in who should be in them flavorfully).
4. To ask anyone who is interested to try and make viable deck lists from the set.
I realize this is a ton to ask since it's 467 cards atm, so like I said, it's only if you're genuinely interested in checking it out, and take it all at your own pace (I'm at college atm so I don't have much free time anyways). Also, if you do any of these, please don't try to do all of them cause that's a lot! Thanks so much for any help anyone gives! I really hope to wrap this project up entirely by the end of the year.
Here's the set (it's arranged by rarity, then color):
https://mtgcardsmith.com/user/RohanDragoon/sets/44933
Cheers!
Dragoon
So as some of you may know, I've been working on a mega-set for quite a while now (basically just two sets mashed together under the guise of one because story). It's currently at a total of 467 cards. I'm at the point where I'm mainly looking to refine it, and try to actually balance in color-wise, creature-wise, card-type wise, etc.
I've got a spreadsheet of my own detailing all of the specifics of the set like color matched to rarity, creature types matched to color, etc. But I really am struggling especially in the realm of noncreatures and non-legendary creatures (as one of the focuses of the set is legendary creatures).
Anyways, I started this thread for a couple reasons.
1. To ask anyone who is interested to check out the set and see if you notice:
a. blatant balancing problems
b. lack of card variation
c. lack of creative vision
d. anything else
2. To ask anyone who is interested to check out the set and find some cards you really enjoy!
3. To ask anyone who is interested to check out the set and find some characters you'd like to see a little bit more of (so if I have to make more cards, I can work in who should be in them flavorfully).
4. To ask anyone who is interested to try and make viable deck lists from the set.
I realize this is a ton to ask since it's 467 cards atm, so like I said, it's only if you're genuinely interested in checking it out, and take it all at your own pace (I'm at college atm so I don't have much free time anyways). Also, if you do any of these, please don't try to do all of them cause that's a lot! Thanks so much for any help anyone gives! I really hope to wrap this project up entirely by the end of the year.
Here's the set (it's arranged by rarity, then color):
https://mtgcardsmith.com/user/RohanDragoon/sets/44933
Cheers!
Dragoon
This discussion has been closed.
Comments
The skeleton of a set is in the commons!
Haha welp I guess my set is a blob-fish then hahahahahaha
Thoughts on the first 10 pages of cards:
Thank you so much for taking the time to look over the cards! There's a ton of great stuff you noted in there that I'm gonna be working through to fix!
I will note that that tribal is definitely part of the set. It tries to give a little bit of a sense of unity to some of the creature classes that are used that aren't really given unity like creature types.
And I will definitely look over some of the clunky creatures again and try to make them less clunky. Part of the goal of the set was also to give more options to 3-4 color commander players in choosing commanders (I started the set before Ikoria was around so there were a ton less 3 color options). So in total, I'm definitely going to try to keep most of the creatures, but I definitely will try to see if I can lower some of them down.
I will say I'm a little...distraught with the seeming shift towards faster and faster gameplay with mtg sets (one of the reasons I think Ikoria was nice, some of its nicest creatures were on the bigger side as like 4-5 drops), so I'm probably definitely guilty of trying too hard to slow down the pace a little bit with some high value high cmc cards so I'll look through all of them again.
I'm also not a modern/legacy player so I have 0 knowledge in making sure stuff is balanced there so I definitely appreciate your help in pointing out where those cards may be unbalanced!
Okay so I've looked over your specific comments and I've got my general plan down for it:
- Kroen will drop to a 5 mana 5/6. She's a very weird card that hard counters planeswalkers, but certainly is probably unplayable where she's at rn
- I'm going to drop live on in memory to 1ww. I'm reluctant to make it rare just because the number of board-wipe like effects in the set (there's probably around ten or something), which allow live on in memory to be an incredibly powerful card
- Beholden to Wonder I'm going to keep at a mythic for a couple of reasons. There's a couple of cards that are kind of like it (crawlspace, Mirri, dueling grounds, silent arbiter), however, beholden to wonder is objectively better than these because it 1. doesn't restrict defenders and 2. is an enchantment so it's much more difficult to remove than mirri or silent arbiter
- Kroen's Reanchoring is just going to be deleted completely
- I'll probably change Planar Collapse's alternate cost
- I'm going to drop Dishonorable Ronin's cost to bb and make it 4/2. It's powerful because you either get killed or you kill it and let your opponent draw a card
- Sacrosanctity I'm going to keep where it is because it's a world enchantment. So it doesn't just hit your lands, it hits everyone's lands. So yeah, it's super powerful for you, but it is also equally beneficial for your opponents, especially in a set that focuses on multicolor
- I think Vornang is fine. I personally don't have a problem with having some larger creatures that also have higher p/t
- You are right that Foreboding Fate is terrible. I will be either reworking it or deleting it depending on how I feel about the set in total
- I'm a little averse to giving Mehou power (flavorfully her and Mahasi are sisters which is why they have the same statlines). I think I will instead have her create 2 spirits and keep her as a 2/2
- I've been searching for better art for a few equipment in the set that can equip opponents creatures which is why that text is there for Inner Peace
- I'm going to make Myga's ability trigger "for the first time each turn" to prevent infinite combos and boost her stats to 4/4 to make up for the decrease in her ability's power
- I don't think unavowed is a total rules headache, basically just any ability that has "whenever a..." that would be triggered by that card simply doesn't trigger, but since this isn't a real set I'm okay with a little complication in the abilities
- Again, I'm totally cool with big creatures with big payoffs, so I'm going to keep Ghmun with his mana cost and statline. I might drop his ability cost, but I'm still thinking about it
- Though the other creatures on page 3 are "clunky", at the end of the day, they are big game finishing creatures. Kuyi is a 7/7 hexproof flyer that can multi-copy spells, mistform dracolich is a 7/7 flyer with evasion and deathtouch, Reckoning is a 6/6 indestructible that makes your spells easier to cast and taxes your opponents, and Emyehem and Khumsyum are 7/7 combo creatures really. These creatures are meant to end games that have longer games, especially things like commander.
I'll get to the rest soon!You've got
D E V O T I O N
Literally and Figuratively!!
But Yeah! I've been making this set for well over a yeah now and it takes up well over half my cards!! I have a story that I tried to write but when I posted it on the forums it didn't get a ton of interest so I pushed that off to the side a little bit, but it's been really cool and I'd love to add to the finished sets made by our cardsmiths here!
Thoughts on pages 11-29 of cards:
This is awesome! Again I'd like to thank you a lot for taking your time to look over my set!
I feel like you are right that we are coming to an impasse about the big creatures but that's totally fine! I'll try to do justice to some of my reasonings behind the set here before I get to the individual concerns!
One of the biggest things that I wanted to do with this set was provide a space to experiment with multicolor; more importantly, to try and shift players away from monocolor decks. My thought process has always been any multicolored card with multiple colors in its cost can do anything one of those colors can do but further, a multicolored card with multiple colors in its cost need not individually address all of its color aspects i.e. a card can be multicolor while not having a multicolor effect
Another guiding principle I have is multicolor cards need not follow the established wizards formulation of those combined colors so long as the card adheres to the individual colors' capabilities i.e. a ub card may be dimir, but it doesn't need to be. There are many ways of playing ub that aren't inherently dimir, as we'll see with Oracle of Deep Seas
Another one: A slower game with higher cmc spells and creatures is just as valuable as a fast paced game with lower cmc spells and creatures. Recently, wizards has shifted towards lower cmc spells, but that doesn't mean all sets are equally created with this lower cmc thought in mind. Specifically, sets with tribal features that necessitate larger cmc will have an overall higher cmc and that's fine (take for example, Tarkir, specifically Dragons, which had a plethora of 5+ cmc creatures because of the dragons)
Another one: Multicolor mana costs are more intensive than monocolor mana costs of the same converted mana cost. Pretty self-explanatory, but in terms of set-building, a 2ur spell is less versatile and more intensive than 2uu, 2rr, 3r, or 3u, even if only barely. But, this extra intensivity and decreased versatility is what affords multicolored cards to push more powerful effects; they must be played in multicolored decks and cannot be placed in simply any deck that runs the color.
Finally: Check brokenness based on the card alone first, then the set alone, and then in potential other formats. Don't be afraid of a niche-broken interaction with a random other card from another set. Let's be honest. Players will find powerful combos no matter what cards are available. In my view, it is far better to create a cohesive set with a card that was meant to be there, then remove it because of its interaction with a single card (I know this will probably get me a lot of hate, but I have seen plenty of people go infinite with legal combos that certain combos are simply not that worrisome to me).
In terms of the big creatures, I definitely take the point. Many of the ones that are 3-color, 4-color, or 5-color are meant to provide options for commander. For example, yes, Hetzica is a worse Adaptive Automaton. However, in this set, all of the tribal classes (monk, advisor, assassin, scout, rebel, and spellshaper) are found in ALL colors. Hetzica is a commander that can be used as a tribal commander for all of them if you want to play WUBRG advisors, for example. As I've said before too, I started this set before Ikoria introduced a lot more commanders. Many of the creatures are meant to provide viable commander options for colors that simply don't have options
Alright, onto the individual concerns:
- Dhansii's statline will increase to a 5/6 but remain 7 cmc
- For Velikar: Spellshapers are much more potent than they seem, especially when they have Substantiate. Velikar essentially can turn any card in your hand into Anguished Unmaking, one of the most powerful cards in commander (and i think a couple of other formats, it was also pretty good when it was in standard). Not to mention, when he does so, his substantiate activates. So it's basically Anguished Unmaking except you only lose 1 life and each opponent loses 2 life at the same time. All attached to a 4/4 lifelink which means if you give him vigilance he can swing and still anguished unmaking. In terms of balancing, I think I'm probably going to keep him there because I'd rather keep him a little underpowered than overpowered
- Visionary Blade was balanced against Hydroid Krasis! That's why 1. It can only deal damage to creatures 2. You can only draw if the creature dies and 3. It's a 2/2 as opposed to Krasis which is based on X
- All classes that are focused on in the set (Monks, Advisor, Assassins, Scouts, Rebels and Assassins) are expanded to WUBRG colors as part of the set to make them more versatile, so hopefully this addresses the concern with Adaptive Takedown and Into Revolution
- A thousand's eyes watch may not be good in every format, but I'd maintain that it has value in commander
- Mahasme's second ability is purely red because it's a spell copy ability like mirrorwing dragon that's mainly red, but I wanted to make it a mardu-color commander
- Ultkrish may increase by 1 cmc. The biggest think with the Rebels is that the benefit of playing them from your deck is often counteracted by the fact that they are much harder to play from hand due to higher costs. Ultkrish is much harder to play from hand if you get him. But yes, he is meant to be one of the Rebel powerhouses
- Venyegon is 6 mana specifically so that he is more likely to hit with more creature types and abilities. At five mana, he will get one extra creature type and ability. But at six mana, more often than not, he will come down with two extra creature types and two extra abilties (a 6/6 flying vigilance dragon angel or a 6/6 deathtouch reach zombie spider is, at least to me, very much worthy of 6 cmc).
- Hekmor is being deleted from the set because I am unable to figure out his ability hahaha
- Elya and Duaxitrun are very powerful. However, I will also note that there are two class types in the set which specifically revolve around not casting spells: Spellshapers use abilities to imitate spells and Rebels use abilities to pull creatures out of the deck. So, even though they are powerful, there are avenues of counterplay, and it's also a late game play where you hopefully have some boardstate hahaha
- Sa Chor's ability is a common instant spell called Recoil which costs 3 mana. Casting Sa Chor for 4 to play a 3 mana instant isn't really a problem. The reason that Ashiok is higher cmc and mythic is because Ashiok exiles the card as opposed to discarding it, which they can then pull with their ult later in a way Sa Chor can't
- Definitely noted for Sathion; if anything, at the moment Sathion and Vivien are about the same power level honestly. Sathion's downsides, however, is that she is far less versatile than Vivien. I will probably increase her to 3gw
- Will drop Karsuin's astral diviner to 6 mana
- I will look over the planeswalker check lands again. Honestly, I think planeswalkers aren't played enough to make them breakable by being fetchable
- So fragrant springs is probably still too powerful. As I have it worded now, you lose one life when it enters, but whenever you exile it and return it you lose another 4. Probably still not enough, so I'll look back at it
- Edzijoczka can be powerfully played with things like Urban Burgeoning or anything that can untap lands. Sinronce I will probably turn into an enchantment
- For New Fortune Kirin, that was taken into account. New Fortune Kirin is meant to help stave off boardwipes and things like "destroy target planeswalker"
- I made Cleanser of the Impure 6 cmc specifically so it hits late game where you can hopefully have some way to play around it. But I will look at it again as well
- Pacify is a strange card. It doesn't seem powerful, but it has it's niche. Whereas Emerge Unscathed and Distortion Strike can get one creature through, if your opponent has a single blocker, Pacify can get everyone through.
- I will increase Purveyor of Mines' mana cost
- Piercing Precision/Kaon Isles Sharpshooter isn't really meant to be a repeatable combo. It's more so a set up for a free uncounterability when you make your big play. Think like, you're about to drop Omniscience and your opponent counters. You have no mana. Sucks. But, with a Kaon Isles Sharp Shooter and Piercing Precision, you don't need mana to make your spells uncounterable
- Bringer of Tides is overcosted like all serpents hahahahahaha I might change it, I might not I'll check. Serpents are just notoriously bad because of the attack restricitons
- First lessons is meant to be an enchantment. A creature would make it easier to remove
- You are correct, Poetic Rescue should be white. I will change it hahaha
- I have been thinking the same about Whirlwind reversal. I will be increasing it to 2uu
- Secret Sower will be upgraded to 2/2
- Mistress of the Black Tower will become a 3/2
- Persistent hostility is 2 mana; Rush of the kill will be reduced to 2 mana
- Understandable. They were made because I felt like dragon decks have very few options for early game
- Bloodsoaked inciter will deal damage to creature instead
- Pureflame Teacher's buff will be reduced to +2/+0
- That's a good point with unstable summoning, I'll look at it again
- Scampering manatail was meant to be weird. It's half meant to be a sac creature
- Honestly, Demon Compatriot doesn't really need to be associated with any color, so I just chose one, namely green because it is buffing itself to be big based on the surroundings
- Yeah, since Field of the Dead is gone, I'm not that worried about Among the Shaein Blooms
- Oracle of the Deep Seas isn't Dimir, but it is ub, it deals with sacrificing life (black) to give your creatures hexproof (blue) and gives menace (black) to creatures with combined p/t 10+ (this could be green, but honestly all colors have creatures that fulfill this part. This was written for things like, Octopi, Leviathans, Serpents, etc.)
- Madness of the Blood Moon could be monocolored, but isn't, namely because Angrath's Rampage isn't
- Sacrifice to the Dragon's Will's sacrifice clause deals with flavor; basically you can't sacrifice a dragon as an offering to a dragon (that might be like "hey, I killed your cousin, aren't you happy?")
- Emerge from Advserity will be changed to 1ug
- Tear from Tethers is already very powerful. But I may drop it to 2 mana because rn I don't see why you wouldn't just run murder haha
- Lightspear's boon is gonna stay higher cmc, but I will probably drop it to 4 cmc
- I'm fine with Monsoon Witch exiling lands because it's 1. temporary, if you kill her you get it back 2. She's tri-color, so her versatility lower than most cards so there are fewer decks she can be played in
Again thanks for all the insight and advice!But now, onto the other cards.
Compared to other sets of the came caliber, I actually think this set is pretty good; nice designs for most of the cards and some cards that I'm really, really impressed with.
Thanks for all the advice again, and especially the kind words at the end! I'll note that I am terrible at making commons, as you probably saw (hahahaha) just because I am afraid of them being too plain, so your advice here is helpful!