The importance of Art in cardsmithing

NicoStonerNicoStoner
in Custom Card Discussion
Hey, NicoStoner here. I would like to ask a question: Why is art so important to cardsmiths? Beyond the basic requirement of not putting a white screen on a card, I don't see what the point of judging a card on this website based on it's art is. Afterall, unless you make your own art (which most of us don't), you put very little effort into putting art on a card. The counterpoint, of course, could be that finding new art is hard. But even so, finding art is completely different from making a card. Wizards doesn't hire artists to design it's cards, and likewise, it's designers don't do their own art. So why does it matter here? Don't get me wrong, I'd love to be convinced to come around to the communities perception, and I do believe there is a minimum level of quality required in card art used. However, great art on this site shouldn't be what makes a card great. It should be great mechanics, coupled by art of the minimum quality needed not to be sloppy.
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  • Faiths_GuideFaiths_Guide
    edited March 2016
    Well one counterpoint is that the artwork itself can inspire a card design (when using the methods we here on the site employ). As this is the case, often times card mechanics and overall design can be judged on how well they fit the art and vice-versa.

    Art: "The expression or application of human creative skill and imagination, typically in a visual form such as painting or sculpture, producing works to be appreciated primarily for their beauty or emotional power."

    So, by definition, our entire card (design combined with artwork, mechanics, flavor, storytelling, etc.) is a form of art in itself. As this is the case many Cardsmiths (myself included) tend to mentally rank/rate with bias toward aforementioned components and the continuity of said components.

    This is really what's going on IMO.

    I should add that I find this a reasonable practice. We are, after all, attempting to make a card that stands out in one way or another; what better way to accomplish that then to make ones with outstanding and eye-catching artwork that facilitates a more comprehensive understanding of the card in general?
  • MrRansomMrRansom
    edited March 2016
    1) It can take a lot of effort to find the right art for a card. Implying otherwise is an insult to those of use who put in time to find the proper art.

    2) While the art might not contribute the strength or mechanics of the card, but it absolutely:
    Impacts the flavor - http://mtgcardsmith.com/view/boros-siege-captain-2
    Tells a story - http://mtgcardsmith.com/view/unabashed-corruption-2
    Conveys mechanics visually - http://mtgcardsmith.com/view/emphatic-deflection
    Helps to evoke emotions - http://mtgcardsmith.com/view/marson-dimir-mindripper-1

    3) The fact that you "do believe there is a minimum level of quality required in card art used" only goes to show that it is important in your mind, as it is in mine.

    4) Art can inspire a mechanical design. Top-down design on this site often comes from the art first, and the rest of the card is build around that. Art has value as a catalyst that moves someone to create a full card.


    Would we play a good card with art we dislike? Sure. Would we prefer if it had beautiful art to reflect the beauty we find in the card's design? Of course.

    A picture is worth a thousand words, eh?
    If you don't think visuals are important, then you don't prefer one these over the other:
    http://www.phyrexia.com/forum/messages/1/19697.jpg
    http://mtgcardsmith.com/view/damnation-27
    Right? Because they are mechanically the same.
  • strongbelievesstrongbelieves
    I have personally drawn the art in every card I have made

    from a pool of art available on deviantart...
  • Lord_ShaxxLord_Shaxx
    edited March 2016
    A great card is a combination of balanced mechanics and fitting art. We like our cards to have something to them, besides a description, the card components themselves, and maybe a placeholder image. Would you rather have a card with a pretty picture with a watermark obscuring its majority, or a pretty picture that is clear, concise, and fits the card?

    A minimum level of quality is present, but the art must be in context as well. Say, you're making a new version of Spellskite. Do you use a picture of something that resembles an insect-like horror, much like the actual Spellskites, or a beautiful picture of a platypus?

    This is why cards with good, fitting art and interesting mechanics/lore are better received by the community than the endless variants of Donald Trump.
  • NicoStonerNicoStoner
    @MrRansom @Faiths_Guide @Lord_Shaxx
    Addressing several key points made:
    "Art is hard to find"
    Not an important augment for the discussion. Just because you worked hard to find art doesn't mean your card should instantly be considered better. I agree that finding good art is difficult, but just because you found good art doesn't mean you should get a pat on the back.
    "Art has to be in context/Certain cards make more sense with art/etc."
    Don't mistake my lack of believing a cardsmith shouldn't be judged more favorably for having stunning art for the belief that art can't make a card. Form of the Dragon is one such card, and it's amazing. However, would you credit the designer of the card for it's art, or the artist? On this site, where virtually no one creates their own art or even collaborates with online artists, the validity of "This card is great because of the art" comes into question.
    "Certain Cards require their art to be great"
    I accept this argument, but only when coupled with equally great mechanics. As I have always firmly believed, mechanics always trump art, and in some cases trump flavor.
  • saveria201saveria201
    Finding inspiring art makes me ask questions. "What is happening in this scene? Why are the creatures framed this way?" This leads to more research to make sure I get as much as I can right about what the card does, to express mechanically how the art makes me feel, thus leading me to learn more about the finer points of the game. It stretches and improves my design skills, sometimes even leads to coming up with something new. All because of the art.
  • fabiocbinbutterfabiocbinbutter
    It all depends on context... I've hosted one challenge where the art was in fact central (Lovesong set contest), and one where the art played no role whatsoever (Insanity mechanic)
  • Lord_ShaxxLord_Shaxx
    @NicoStoner Fair enough.
  • Biblio2Biblio2
    The art is really immaterial to the mechanics of the card [except for the Unhinged set's "Art Matters" theme]. The rest is aesthetics. Most Cardsmiths seem to prefer something that "feels" like a "real" Magic card, since that's what they're emulating, and Wizards has kept the game in a fairly generic fantasy setting for over 20 years now. Portal 2 had guns and Invasion had Power Armor and a few other SF type cards, but otherwise strictly fantasy. Your art choices are made for cards of your own creation for your personal use, so nobody can dictate what you like. Whether others also enjoy the work is up to them. Use whatever you like as long as it fits the Terms of Service, just have fun!
  • MrRansomMrRansom
    edited March 2016
    @NicoStoner
    About art, you ask "So why does it matter here?" Later, you write that you "do believe there is a minimum level of quality required in card art used." Why do you believe there is a minimum level of quality required?

    Lastly, MTG cards don't exist without their art. People love the art. People make prints of the art to hang on walls. People get tattoos of the art. Part of the reason the game, and this site, are popular is because of the art. Would the game be without it's art?

    Haha, I don't even know what we're talking about anymore. :)
    If you contention is that art is not an important part of a card's mechanics, then you're clearly correct and I don't even think there is anything left to discuss.
  • CorwinnnCorwinnn
    edited March 2016
    Art is crucial to those who appreciate what it does for a card.

    "A picture is worth a thousand words." - The art alone can tell the story of the card.
    Which of these two arts looks more like a "Slash Panther" ?
    This?
    http://www.deviantart.com/art/A-Cat-136596679
    Or this?
    http://media.wizards.com/images/magic/daily/stf/stf143_slashPanther.jpg

    The art tells the story... but it can also take away.

    Art affects people. It creates emotions where none previously existed. It can make you laugh, it can make you cry... it can even make you put a favorite on someone's card.

    Here is art that is "meh" on a very flavorful card (imo)
    http://mtgcardsmith.com/view/discovered-path?list=user

    Here is art that affected a lot of people, on a card that was just a placeholder.
    http://mtgcardsmith.com/view/gruul-aristocrat-1?list=user

    It's not the most important part of the card, but the art is still a big part of the card, and without great art we all might be playing "Stickfigure: The Gathering" and making our own cards on STG Sticksmith!

  • TomigonTomigon
    "A picture is worth a thousand words" - @MrRansom
    Couldn't agree more! XD

    @NicoStoner - I remember you talked about this topic on disqus.

    Art reflects the flavor of the card, and the flavor helps to understand the card's mechanics. If the card looks easy to understand, it gets people's attentions. And that's how they sell real TCG. If your "cardsmithing" is about getting attentions, selecting good art is surely important. If you think only typing texts should be cardsmithing, I think that's why you feel strange among the people who enjoy art selecting. But each person has their own "cardsmithing", their own importance of art. Either way, no one is wrong. I simply enjoy collecting what I think good looking cards in my page. That's already a big part of my cardsmithing. I've never thought of importance or such things at all.
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