Use This Mechanic (Now)

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  • Baron-777Baron-777
    Just a quick question to see if I am following this correctly. On memorize trigger, does the spell that was cast get copied, or does the card with memorize get copied?
  • modnation675modnation675
    edited June 2017
    @Baron-777
    No problem, the card that was cast is copied rather than the card with memorize.
  • Baron-777Baron-777
    Cool. So lets talk flavor a sec. How does the flavor work for cards like this? What exact is the card doing when it memorizes something? Like it sees a spell or creature and is able to recreate it from it being cast or shown?
  • modnation675modnation675
    Kind of, I'm mainly working on some of the wording aspects. I advised that we keep it in a way that can be used on sorcery speed cards.

    This would also leave room for a Commander using this ability.
  • syntheticreignsyntheticreign
    The initial idea was that the player was memorizing a spell they or an opponent cast, allowing them to recreate it.
  • Baron-777Baron-777
    edited June 2017
    Maybe it's because I like a challenge, but I managed to create 4 cards. Hope this fits in to your vision:
    image
    https://mtgcardsmith.com/view/heroes-monument-1?list=user
    image
    https://mtgcardsmith.com/view/goblin-spellsnatcher?list=user
    image
    https://mtgcardsmith.com/view/plagiarizing-artificer?list=user
    image
    https://mtgcardsmith.com/view/hashiba-of-the-calm-storm?list=user

    I'll admit the rule text makes it hard to format the cards cleanly, but I did the best I could. My personal favorite is Plagiarizing Artificer and
    Hashiba of the Calm Storm.
  • syntheticreignsyntheticreign
    @Baron-777
    Those are amazing!!! Yeah, sorry about the phrasing, I'm still working on that with the help of a couple other cardsmiths. If you could put the links to those cards so I can favorite them, that would be awesome!
  • BrainifyerBrainifyer
    Here's a planeswalker with memorize!
    image
    https://mtgcardsmith.com/view/anna-blind-mystic
    I believe if you say "memorize once' it memorizes the next spell of any colour.
  • Baron-777Baron-777
    Added links below each of them for ya.
  • modnation675modnation675
    edited June 2017
    Given the current formatting, you don't have to write the "once" part.
    -----
    At the beginning of each of your combat phases, memorize blue, red, or, white.
    -----
  • syntheticreignsyntheticreign
    @Brainifyer

    Oooo, very nice! And to @modnation675's point, we're still formatting, so I'll be rewording the thread text soon.
  • modnation675modnation675
    edited June 2017
    @Brainfyer
    I suppose, but the ability has no cost to reference in the comparison. (As it's on a triggered ability without cost!)

    Memorize green spell. (The next time any player casts a green spell before your next turn, if the amount of mana spent to cast it is less than the amount spent to cast this spell, create up to one copy of that spell without memorize. You may choose new targets for the copy.)
  • syntheticreignsyntheticreign
    edited June 2017
    Final wording is up:

    Memorize (mana color/card type): The next time any player casts a (mana color/card type) spell before your next turn, if the amount of mana spent to cast it is less than the amount spent to cast (this spell), create one copy of that spell without memorize. You may choose new targets for the copy.

    And on the topic of the Planeswalker, I'd say the simple ruling would be that the cost for comparison is that of the Planeswalker that created the emblem
  • modnation675modnation675
    edited June 2017
    @syntheticreign
    I don't like this version since you can copy someone else's 10 mana X/X Eldrazi with a shock if it had memorize.

    I think you meant the reverse.
  • syntheticreignsyntheticreign
    @modnation

    What do you mean?
  • modnation675modnation675
    edited June 2017
    @syntheticreign
    Memorize (mana color/card type): The next time any player casts a (mana color/card type) spell before your next turn, if its converted mana cost is less than the amount of mana spent to cast (this spell), create one copy of that spell without memorize. You may choose new targets for the copy.

    Left Card = Green;
    Right Card = Red;

    Spending seven mana on the Eldrazi. XD

    imageimage
  • syntheticreignsyntheticreign
    So? I'm confused. The converted mana cost of the Eldrazi card is equal to the mana spent to cast it. Even if I'm wrong on that, and the mana cost is 0, you're creating a copy, the keyword being "create". You place it onto the battlefield under your conditions, meaning that even if an opponent spent 7 mana on it, when you create it, you're creating it with a cost of X, so technically it would come into play with 0 counter on it and it would die anyway.
  • modnation675modnation675
    edited June 2017
    Incorrect, it's treated as 0 CMC and the creature comes in with seven +1/+1 counters just as the original would.
  • modnation675modnation675
    Converted mana cost is not the amount of mana spent. X is considered as zero always for that respect.
  • syntheticreignsyntheticreign
    Ohhhhhh, but if the Eldrazi said "When Endless One enters the battlefield, put X +1/+1 counters on it" it would be fine right? Because the memorize would take effect prior to the counters
  • modnation675modnation675
    edited June 2017
    Nope, still incorrect as that would be formatted as follows. As such, the way you wrote it there has no determined value for X.
    -----
    When Endless One enters the battlefield, put an amount of +1/+1 counters on it. Where X is the amount of mana spent to cast it.
    -----
  • syntheticreignsyntheticreign
    That seems way too wordy to me, but ok. Either way I changed it again
  • modnation675modnation675
    edited June 2017
    Copies copy all values such as X, Y or Z. But no mana is spent to cast them.
  • syntheticreignsyntheticreign
    That's probably correct, I just could've sworn that certain copies didn't carry those letter values because they didn't meet certain conditions. Idk, I'm probably wrong
  • modnation675modnation675
    edited June 2017
    @syntheticreign
    Which do you prefer?

    A) The 1st accounts for variable costs on the spell with memorize.
    B) Whereas the 2nd doesn't.

    Memorize (mana color/card type): The next time any player casts a (mana color/card type) spell before your next turn, if the amount of mana spent to cast it is less than the amount of mana spent to cast (this spell), create one copy of that spell without memorize. You may choose new targets for the copy.

    Memorize (mana color/card type): The next time any player casts a (mana color/card type) spell before your next turn, if the amount of mana spent to cast it is less than (this spell)'s converted mana cost, create one copy of that spell without memorize. You may choose new targets for the copy.
  • syntheticreignsyntheticreign
    Definitely the first, as it holds flavor with the card I created it for. I was trying to implement the cmc vs cost thing, but I'll do that with another ability later on. The text has been changed on the card and in the thread. It's finally official, the mechanic is complete!!!
  • modnation675modnation675
    Okay cool, it's ready now. But I'd like you to look at the reference below as it explains it more concise than I am able to.

    202.3d - When calculating the converted mana cost of an object with an {X} in its mana cost, X is treated as 0 while the object is not on the stack, and X is treated as the number chosen for it while the object is on the stack.
  • modnation675modnation675
    edited June 2017
    @syntheticreign
    It seems I just proved your original stance correct since the copy is from the spell on the stack.

    Sorry about that. Here's another revision because I'm a fool. (I'm not used to permanent spells being copy-able on the stack!)

    Memorize (mana color/card type): The next time any player casts a (mana color/card type) spell before your next turn, if its converted mana cost is less than the amount of mana spent to cast (this spell), create one copy of that spell without memorize. You may choose new targets for the copy.
  • syntheticreignsyntheticreign
    The concept of the stack still confuses me, but based off of what I'm understanding, wouldn't the memorize trigger as the eldrazi was put on the stack as a response, meaning its cmc would become the number chosen? The effect that gives it the +1/+1 values trigger the beginning of its casting on the stack, which is then responded to by the memorize. Wouldn't that mean the cmc would be accounted for AFTER the effect, not prior to? Lol idk, this is why I try to stick to simpler mechanics that don't involve resolving the stack backwards and stuff like that.
  • syntheticreignsyntheticreign
    I'll keep the effect as is, because I like it currently, but I thought maybe I was going crazy for a minute haha. No worries man, just wanted to be sure
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