Music-Themed Enlightenment Based Set- EXPLORATORY DESIGN PHASE

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  • Well, it's not like white can't be dark. Bears care about their family, and are actually more viscous in this way @Ral1000.
  • edited June 2020
    @Ral1000 I'm going to basically narrate my ideas stream-of-consciousness style. I know that I don't have as much experience as some others on here at designing entire Magic sets, but I do design board and card games (rather seriously/professionally) as a primary hobby. So with that in mind, here's what I've got:

    In terms of the theme as a whole, I think having a focus on interconnectedness plays really well with the design of an Enlightenment music plane. What do I mean by interconnectedness? Basically, think of synergy/overlap potential, but for the theme instead of the mechanics...

    Let me digress a little here: In pretty much every Magic set, the designers want to think about how each action or thing a card does can relate to an element of that set's theme. This is where your key abilities come in, like Harmonize and Compose. These are really simple and straightforward examples (which is a good thing!), since they're about music, and your theme is also about music.

    But what if these key thematic elements could be used in a larger, more interconnected way? Here's what I'm thinking...

    Suppose you had four unique design spaces, like, imagine four points, or four pillars, or something. Oppose ends correspond to contrasting (but not necessarily polar opposite) elements.

    Your plane is based around the Enlightenment, and I just took AP European History, so when I think of great (or at least great European) advancements during the Enlightenment, I think of the effect on society created by Francis Bacon and Rene Descartes, or, more broadly, the contrast between abstract, theoretical reasoning and practical, empirical observation. In other words, two potential design elements that contrast each other (but aren't necessarily polar opposites), are observation, and reason (or practical vs theoretical). Now putting this into the context of music, I think of how some people like to study the notation and sheet music very thoroughly, and others like to just play what comes to mind (me being the latter). On this note, I noticed that your two keyword abilities of Harmonize, and Compose seem to fit very nicely into these two spaces (Harmonize being more abstract, and going into the reason/theoretical category, and Compose fitting more into the practical/observation domain).

    So in my mind, the breakdown looks like this:

                            ?
                            |
                            |
    Harmonize ---- X ---- Compose
                            |
                            |
                            ?



    Now we come back to interconnectedness. Whatever intersects the question marks and the two existing abilities is how the player will experience the theme (as well as the mechanics) as a whole. Most of your non-generic cards will probably fall somewhere on this "venn diagram"-style chart, which is how your theme will exhibit itself through each card and its individual abilities. Thus, it's important that all four of these "points" be able to overlap in a way that is mechanically sound and satisfying. So here was my idea for the other two...

    When I think of music composition, I think of the struggle for creativity. Every composer loves having new ideas, and dreads having creative/mental block. How does one simulate ideas and creativity block in Magic the Gathering... tapping and untapping of course! So (assuming you're still following along), we'd want the two "?" abilities to have something to do with tapping and untapping. This brings my attention to two existing MtG abilities: Inspired, and Convoke. Obviously, you could create your own, but for now, I'm going to lay out the diagram like this

                      Inspired
                            |
                            |
    Harmonize ---- X ---- Compose
                            |
                            |
                      Convoke

    To me, inspired represents an influx of creativity, and convoke represents exhausting that supply of creativity, or perhaps it represents performing for an audience, etc.

    Looking back at this, and thinking about how these points overlap, I'm really happy with Inspired, because I think it has a different feel depending on whether it intersects compose, or harmonize. Additionally, the way this can be done mechanically is by having stuff like "Inspired - When this creature becomes untapped, Harmonize." Similar things can be done with compose and inspired.

    However... I'm not quite as satisfied with Convoke, at least in terms of the theme. Yes, convoking a bunch of creatures synergizes very well with the song tokens, and you can overlap them in multiple different ways. You can also overlap convoke with inspired for some really gnarly combos and shenanigans! However, I don't know how much relevance the concept of "convoke" has to a theme based around music and the Enlightenment, so I think this is an area you'd have to improve upon...

    One other potential idea for the bottom point on the diagram could be something like "Showcase" or "Performance" or "Encore". This ability could be: "You may reveal an unrevealed card from your hand. If you do, [effect]." This might also overlap better with harmonize and compose, as well as clearly define what the top and bottom points represent: creating vs performing, rather than simply "tapping and untapping". Additionally, you could still integrate tapping just by having normal tap abilities like any other set, without having to assign an entire corner of design space to it.

    Again, feel free to take whatever from this and pull it apart in your own way... I was merely writing out everything I could think of so that you've got as much to work with as possible.

    You never cease to amaze me with your ideas and cards, so I'm really looking forward to how this set evolves over time! Thanks again for everything Ral1000!

    Best,
    Alextorrez6
  • @Alextorrez6:

    Wow, thanks so much for all this feedback!! I've read through it once already, but I'd like to spend some time re-reading it and thinking over the concepts. I'll post a longer update once I have gathered my thoughts. It's terrific to have this kind of support! 
  • edited June 2020
    @Ral1000 No problem! I do kind of tend to be all over the place sometimes, so yeah, you'll probably want to think it over and organize it in your own way.

    I'm happy to continue to help however you may need me going forward! This will be a fun project! :)
  • @Alextorrez6 sounds great! It's great to know that I have someone like you to help! 
  • @Ral1000 What about the verse counters then? Will the thing be there too?
  • edited June 2020
    @Fallen_Lord_Vulganos, if you're talking about verse counters like on Yisan: 

    MTG Talk  With yisan the wanderer bard The verse counters

    I'm guessing that could be a cool theme to experiment with later on in the design process, when we're making the legendary creatures. I'm guessing this is what you're talking about, but I could be wrong? 

    @LordTachanka123 fair point. We'll probably end up making them Seleznia anyway. 


  • @Ral1000 I was thinking some more and wanted to ask you a few quetions, if you've got answers to them... If not, maybe just a few more options for you consider:

    First, I noticed in your example cards, that you made some green cards with harmonize, like elves and stuff. I agree with Tachanka that the school should be Grixis and the Bears should be Selesnya, but I think both tribes should definitely be able to play music, since obviously that's what this set is about. My question was, were you planning to incorporate elves along with bears, since elves seem more capable of playing music than bears (though I won't necessarily presume it impossible for bears to play music, especially if they are magical bears)? If so, I was thinking you could expand "bears tribal" to a more generalized group of "outcasts", or those not considered "fit for the school's teachings" (by the humans). This could be your point of tension between the factions, at least in terms of the story... You've got humans and humanoids (like vampires, perhaps vedalken, or maybe some shapeshifters or something) at the school, with the outcasts (elves, bears, perhaps giants, etc) wanting to play music their own way, and rejecting the ways of the school...

    On that note, you could also align the "harmonize" mechanic more towards the outcasts, and the "compose" mechanic more towards the school, since as I explained earlier, "compose" seems to fall more into your objective/practical/studied, school-y type of bucket, whereas "harmonize" fits much better with elves and Throne-of-Eldraine-style (Selesnya) bears.

    Maybe you've already thought about this, or perhaps you've taken it in a different direction, but I wanted to at least try expanding the theme a bit more to make it work for the whole set.
  • edited June 2020
    @Ral1000 Yea, just thinking if it could be significant in your sets, or probably not. 

    Also, Grixis's kind of music looks like to be a heavy metal themed lol. Anthem of Rakdos, for example.
  • edited June 2020
    @Alextorrez6 to be quite honest with you, I absolutely love this idea. I was already thinking about a possible conflict between the groups, but this seems like the perfect, balanced story concept that we need. I do also love the idea of bears being mixed in with the elves, and perhaps a few other races like you mentioned. I've also been thinking about the diagram you explained to me, and I wonder if this mechanic might fit nicely in place of Convoke: 

    Enlighten- As you cast this spell, you may tap an untapped creature you control. If you do, [effect]. 

    Here's an example of a card using the mechanic:



    This would also reflect the general enlightenment theme of the set. Let me know what you think! 


  • I like this. You're really good at simplifying complex stuff, and I think having just one creature tap instead of as many as you want (as it is with convoke) is probably a good thing, since it's consistent with the simplicity of the other three abilities.

    Mechanically, it also won't be quite as busted as Convoke if/when you start introducing synergy with inspired, etc.

    As for the name, I feel like "Enlightened" is maybe a bit too basic. It works for card names like "Enligthened Aristocrat", but I don't know that it makes for the best keyword name.

    Here are some other ideas (in addition to my three previous ones, of which I personally liked "encore" the best):

    - Aspire (contrast with "inspired" - fits well with the outcasts)
    - Instruct (fits well with the school)
    - Apprentice
    - Spotlight
    - Entrance (as in en-TRANCE, not EN-trance lol)


    ...


    Sorry my mom found some silverfish in a container in the attic... (eek! I hate bugs!)




    Ok, coming back to this, I actually think "Enlightened" sounds better than I thought. All in all, I'd either go with "Enlightened", "Encore", "Aspire", or maybe "Instruct". Whatever the name, I agree that the effect should be the one you just described and put on the card.
  • edited June 2020
    @Alextorrez6 thanks! I think I will just stick with "enlightened," but I appreciate the thoughts you posted. Since the set is enlightenment-based, I think this keyword name would be appropriate, similar to "Renaissance" as a mechanic from Rezatta. I definitely like the simple synergy between this and Inspired, so I would certainly say that we should bring that back as you suggested. 

    Now that we have the four mechanics, I think its time to settle on where exactly each of them will arise within the basic arc of the plane as a whole. I like the idea of compose going to the Music school, as the school is part blue and the mechanic is our scry replacement. Harmonize seems legit for the outcasts, as their different types of music blend together to create a living force.

    As for Enlightened and Inspired, I wonder if there should be a different group of "people" for each mechanic within the plane. Or we could just add one to each of the existing groups. I dunno... 
  • @Ral1000 both could have them, but utizile them differently
  • @MTG_Sappy, that's an interesting thought, I think it could definitely work to have both abilities in each faction, to add the same overall flavor to both. I'll certainly think on that! 
  • edited June 2020
    OK, so I've been thinking over these concepts, and here's a reveiw of what we've landed on and a few new things to consider: 

    -School of Music. As we've been talking about, the school seems fit to fall into the color combination of Grixis (U/B/R). This will be a legendary learning center for Humans, Vampires, and perhaps some Vedalken or other humanoid creature types. This school will use the compose mechanic: 



    -The outcasts. This will be a large faction of survivors within the plane. They were either banished from the school or else decided that it was time to branch out and make their own music in the wilds. They will use the Selesnya colors (G/W), and make use of the harmonize mechanic: 



    We discussed bringing back bear tribal in the set as well, and I think it would be cool to have the bears be there to "protect" the outcasts as they create music. I think there should be some kind of conflict concerning the bears as well, but I can't setle on anything just yet... In any case, here is a possible suggestion for the classic vanilla bear:



    As for the other two mechanics, inspired and enlightened seem to fit quite nicely. The question is: What colors do we want to assign to these mechanics? How do we want to incorporate them into the group? This is what I'm struggling with at the moment. An important note is that they certainly do synergize with each other, so it doesn't seem like a great idea to put one in three colors, the other in the other two colors, ect. I'd happy for any thoughts! 
  • @Ral1000

    " ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ "

    Can I just say... I really love the potential this kind of mechanic (and specifically, this kind of card) has! It basically allows you to "draw from the bottom", which is super unique! As was mentioned earlier in this thread, it could be used in interesting ways in conjunction with mulligans. Additionally, you could mess around with something like this:

    "Intellectual Tutor"

    {2}{b}

    Sorcery

    UC

    Kicker {1}{b}

    Search your library for a card, reveal it, then shuffle your library and put that card on the bottom. If the kicker cost was paid, Compose.

    ----------

    The question is: What colors do we want to assign to these mechanics? How do we want to incorporate them into the group? This is what I'm struggling with at the moment.

    So a possible way to break up inspired and enlightened would be to only use enlightened on instant and sorcery spells, because inspired only works on creatures (or permanents I guess - technically you can have artifacts, enchantments, etc that untap, but instant and sorcery spells don't typically untap). Since you can't use inspired on instants/sorceries, maybe don't use enlightened on creatures/permanents...

    Obviously, this has the downside of locking yourself out of an entire design space opportunity just to preserve your theme, which if you ask me, probably isn't a good idea, but at least it's an idea.

    ----------

    An important note is that they certainly do synergize with each other, so it doesn't seem like a great idea to put one in three colors, the other in the other two colors, ect. I'd happy for any thoughts!

    The option I described above would definitely allow them to interact, since you could play a creature with inspired, tap it with enlightened spells, and then get the bonus when it untaps next turn. However, I still feel like the drawbacks make this option very problematic... I really like having both enlightened creatures and enlightened instant/sorcery spells! I'll have to keep thinking about this...
  • Also, as for the conflict for the bears, I'm thinking maybe the bears are only willing to protect the outcasts because they are charmed by their music (the outcasts specialize in music that appeals to nature, whereas the school focuses on music that appeals to humans and humanoid races - which could also explain why the humans and vampires are willing to coexist)... so if the outcasts stop playing music, the bears get angry at them too! A similar dynamic could exist for the vampires... occasionally they get tired of humans playing music, and they start acting like normal vampires.

    What makes this interesting is that this bit of story would force the whole plane to be constantly emitting music from whatever beings can play it (in order to keep everything calm and peaceful), which is an interesting twist, kind of like how Mirrodin is made entirely of metal. I'm just imagining myself as a planeswalker that just arrived, walking through the forests on this plane, and having the flowers sound like pianos, the wind like flutes, and the trees like drums and symbols. Everything would be fine, until someone or something stops playing music, at which point tensions would arise. You could even have the learning and storytelling on this plane be done entirely through the act of playing music. Maybe I'm going too far with this, but would be an interesting concept to try, I think!
  • Another race you could consider adding to the outcasts are Dwarves (I mean... this one seems pretty obvious to me at least, since they're both very musical and often face discrimination from humans in lots of stories and games)
  • edited June 2020
    @Alextorrez6 thanks so much for all these ideas! You don't know how much I appreciate how dedicated you are. I honestly love about everything you talked about here, but I'll address the different topics like this: 

    I really love the Intellectual Tutor, and I think we should definitely mess around with those kinds of things later on. I could totally see bottom-deck manipulation as a draft archetype, if you ask me. 

    As for the Enlighten/Inspired dilemma, I see what you're saying in all the different terms. However, look at it this way: 

    You're drafting the set, and you decided to build a creature-based Enlightened deck. You have enough mana to cast many of the spells in your hand, but only one or two creatures to pay the enlighten cost. However, you tap one of the creatures you have to pay for the first one. Okay, you got an extra effect. Then, you play the next one. Considering these could all be creatures, you can form a snowball effect by tapping the creatures with the mechanic to pay for the cost of the next one, then tapping that in turn. 

    In order to keep the archetype balanced, we might just want to limit it to instants and sorceries as you first suggested. While this would provide some limitations, I think it would come down to a better time at the table. This would also allow us to use both mechanics in all colors more easily. 

    As for the other ideas, I love the "constant music" theme of the plane, and the thought that confusion and anger would arise without music seems legit. I really like the thought that music connects everyone on the plane, and that would be a great thing to experiment with for the story. As with the bears and vampires, this would be a great connection. 
  • edited June 2020
    @Ral1000 This is a really cool idea! I would recommend making the sacrifice ability on Haunted Violinist cost 1W to activate. It could become very powerful late game! Also, how are the colors in your set balanced? Will it be like Ixalan (two tricolored tribes and two dual colored tribes)? Or five dual colored tribes? Right now, you have the following:

    School of Music (UBR)
    The Outcasts (WG)
    Bears (?)

    I think it would be best if each color is represented twice here.

    @Alextorrez6 Is kicker one of the mechanics being used in the set? If not, I would suggest not including it on only one card.

  • edited June 2020
    @shadow123 So here's the thing... I don't know if you read the beginning of this thread, but we're still in the waaay early stages of this, and while I understand you're trying to give specific feedback, and that's always helpful, I think you're slightly missing the point here: which is that we're still doing rough brainstorming and tossing ideas about here and there. We haven't necessarily (officially) settled on any particular scheme for the cards yet (although I'm sure internally Ral1000 has many plans that are likely to be put in place in the near future, but nothing is really "guaranteed" at this point).

    @Ral1000 Yep, I completely agree that separating the Harmonize/Compose mechanics by color, but the Inspired/Enlightened mechanics by card type makes sense, now that you point out that scenario. As you mentioned, it will allow us to use all the colors with inspired/enlightened and all the card types with harmonize/compose, which should make for a really nice integrated theme/mechanics relationship.

    Also @shadow123 as to your question about the Bears, I think we were planning to have them be part of the outcasts (WG), since bears are not seen as fit for the school's teachings (in the eyes of the humans anyway...). In that respect, I believe everything was going to fall into this binary categorization of outcasts vs the school (just as it was with the consulate vs renegades in Kaladesh, etc.). That isn't to say there won't be some mixing of the colors, or perhaps defectors that bleed into the enemy colors, but the overall color alignment will (probably) be School = UBR and Outcasts = WG. Does that make sense?
  • @Alextorrez6 I agree. Some of my feedback is definitely early. Back when Rezatta was there, I was also active in the Rezatta Exploratory design phase. I think it would be helpful to know what the different tribes you are using (assuming you will be using tribes, that is). I misunderstood there bears' role in this, and now I get it. So, ignore my older comment :smiley:.

    @Ral1000 ; Also for the Harmonize mechanic, I think you should be careful with it at common, just because it can get explosive very quickly. The thing with Amass is that you only have one big creature, while with songs, you have a lot of big creatures. At common, and most likely uncomon as well, you would have top be very restrictive with that mechanic. I'm not saying that's a bad thing, but it is just something to keep in mind as you go through this process.
  • edited June 2020
    @Alextorrez6 sounds good! I definitely agree about that factor of the color scheme, that should make things turn out very nicely. 

    @shadow123 thanks for dropping by! I certainly agree about the harmonize mechanic, I've been thinking and we will definitely have to find a way to balance it in the commons and uncommons. As for the tribes, the school will include at least Humans, Vedalken, and Vampires, while the outcasts will include Elves, Bears, and probably either Giant or Fae. 

    (General Statement): As for the color scheme of the school vs the outcasts, I was thinking there could be perhaps different factions within both. Perhaps different styles of music? This could also give us an opportunity to add onto the story by separating some of the races, even the ones in the same original group. This is a very rough idea and perhaps to complicated to make possible at all, but it's a thought. 
  • edited June 2020
    How about:
    Taylor Swift
    Mozart
    Good Music

    @Ral1000

  • edited June 2020
    @LordTachanka123 If you make Taylor Swift magic cards, I will quit -_-

    lol

    It's supposed to be Enlightenement, not whatever-we-want-enment hehe...
  • If you wouldn't mind, I might actually join this. I'm a musician/actor at heart, and it will be good to get that out through magic.
  • @LordTachanka123 I'm pretty sure you join everything on here to date... but it's fine with me. Probably wanna ping Ral tho...
  • Hmmm, I think this is a more fantasy-based adaption of a music plane, but perhaps we could add a Mozart-like character as a role model to the students in the school?

    Thinking about this, I actually really like the idea, however I assume he would be either a legendary creature or planeswalker, and we are certainly not to that stage of design yet. 
  • @Ral1000
    I was joking about that, sorry! 
    @Alextorrez6
    Is that an insult?Or a complement? Lol, anyways, it is kinda true. I love set building, but can't keep my attention to make my own set.
  • @LordTachanka123 of course you can join! I would never turn anyone down from helping with this. One thing to keep in mind though is that I see you actively helping with Rezatta, and that might put a load on your schedule. Up to you though, I know I certainly have a lot of time on my hands during the quartine! Lol
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