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Renaissance Set — Creative Design
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For the glowy animals, searching through patronus images should probably be a good start!
Here's where we're at with the story so far:
GENERAL ASPECTS:
A) The cycle of arrival/departure of the Muses create a Middle-Age/Renaissance and Winter/Summer cycle on the plane. The Renaissance part of the cycle is very bright and optimistic.
C) The muses bring inspiration to the world. A muse can attune to a living being at a more individual level, which is called the Gifting.
D) The plane has its own magic that brings beautiful art to life.
IMPORTANT CHARACTERS:
I) Jennel of Matereth (♂) — Destined to become the WHITE muse — Sculptor Aven that is a natural leader.
II) Ekoma Rai (♀) — Destined to become the BLUE muse— Musician human that is mute but can express herself with music.
III) Kedrah Selme (♂) — Destined to become the BLACK muse— Plagiarist human that is devilishly charming.
IV) Salendi Kortha (♀) — Destined to become the RED muse — Painter human that is gregarious and unabashed.
V) Maren Farsight (♂) — Destined to become the GREEN muse — Poet elf that is quite but wise.
VI) The artisan leader — He/She's leading a group of artisan to steal the Grand Muses.
STORY PLOT:
1) A festival is organized to celebrate the return of the Muses and the start of a new Renaissance age on the plane. During the festival, [CHARACTER(S)] overhear a conversation among an artisan group. Upon investigating, they learn that this group wants to capture the Grand Muses to siphon their power.
2) The bad guys have an army of living Art ready to capture the Muse. They try their coup at a massive Masterclass called "the Reckoning of Talent".
3) [CHARACTER(S)] betray their friends and join the bad guys, preventing them from stopping the assault on the Grand Muses.
4) During the assault, the Muse of Desire takes control of the mind of the artisans' leader. Through him, it absorbs the other Muses to steal their power and goes on a rampage.
5) The people, lead by the remaining five characters, rally to take down the bad guy by channelling their collective emotions against him and defeat the Muse of Desire.
6) The five characters decides to become five new Grand Muses themselves to replace the ones that have died.
________
So, I already commented a bit above on this version, based on my previous comments here are propositions of changes:
IMPORTANT CHARACTERS: I already mentioned a couple of changes that would help prevent the Gatewatch aspect. I systematically inverted the sex compared to the Gatewatch, and I tried to make them moslty strangers to each other. Also I think the names should probably sound a little more italian (even though still made up).
I) The white aven is a female and isn't the leader to avoid Gideon's comparison but rather a protective figure that is forgiving and always trust everyone. She's friend with the red leader and Da Vinci.
II) The blue musician doesn't know anyone at the beginning. Both her and the red leader overhears the artisan conversation at the beginning, they met awkwardly because they were silently spying on the same person.
III) The black plagiarist starts with the bad guys. But, at the festival, he notices how the blue and red characters spied on the artisans and pretends that he wants to help them so he can better betray them at the right moment. He decides to redempt after the rampage caused by his leader.
IV) The red painter is the leader of the group. He's male to avoid Chandra's comparison. He's already friend with the white aven, and he meets the blue musician when spying on the artisans.
V) The green poet is calm, confident and is excellent at reading people's emotions to avoid comparison with Nissa's socially awkward nature. He doesn't know any of them but spontaneously joins them when the bad guys try to steal the Muses.
VII) Da Vinci-inspired character. The heroes are brought to him by the white aven who is a friend. He's a planeswalker who sparked after being gifted by the Grand Muse of Surprise. He provides them with a variety of items from other worlds when the plot needs it.
On the story plot, a few propositions of changes:
1) "A group of artisans" doesn't sound super shady. A group of aristocrat vampires maybe?
2) The Reckoning of talent is weird because it sounds like the Muse give class themselves. Here's a proposition: It's known that the Grand Muses appear at one place at a specific time and people gather to represent them through their art in the hope of being gifted by one of them.
4) The Muse secretly plotting to take advantage of the other grand Muses is super weird to me. Rather, here's a proposition I already made above: The bad guys leader jump on the Muse and try to catch it. But the Muse becomes corrupted, it kills the other Muse and the bad guys leader, then leaves and goes on a rampage.
5) The Dragon Ball ending where everyone channels their power sounds a bit weird to me in this context because I'm missing some kind of logic. It can be a good finale to the battle, but I'm just looking for an explanation I can believe on how it works.
Then, there are a few elements that probably needs to be inserted to the plot because they will be relevant on cards.
Da Vinci + Sparking when touching a Muse --> 1.5) They need something to get the attention of the grand Muses so they can try to warn them about the danger (they're planning to use the blue musician's talent to communicate since they don't even know if the Muses understand talking). So they go to Da Vinci who is known to have touch a Grand Muse before. He reveals that he got a spark and can travel through universes now. He leaves this world and come back with an item from another world that should be enough to get the Muse attention (any idea on the item? an artifact from Kaladesh? Something linked to the Black Lotus ?)
Exploration + Little Muses --> 4,5) After the corrupted Muses have left, they need a way to track it and kill it. Da Vinci gives them an array of different weapons from other worlds (a fragment of Innistrad's Moon, a hedron from Zendikar, etc...) but they still need to find the muse. They finally realize that the little Muses have a strange behaviour and seem to run away from a certain direction. They go in that direction and find the corrupted muse.
Returning Planeswalker --> ?? Also, we should have at least a returning planeswalker to include in the story (and we have to decide who the five planeswalkers are.)
I'll go through your analysis step by step:
GENERAL ASPECTS
-No criticism here
REVISED MUSES
- I think surprise is kind of a weak emotion. Maybe passion? Too similar to love and faith?
IMPORTANT CHARACTERS (in changes)
- (I) Fine with me!
- (II) Also fine.
- (III) Here's an idea: Kedrah Selme begins separate from either group. He receives the Gifting for his (for lack of a better word) mixtape of plagiarized art and sparks with the other characters, and helps them at first, but decides that the allure of power is too tempting. He struggles with guilt throughout the story, but joins the other group.
- (IV) I don't know about Salendi being male; even though it would be similar to Chandra, her character screams female to me. Also, to further distinguish from the Gatewatch, let's remove the concept of a leader for the group. They have banded together to save their art, and Salendi isn't the leader, but motivates the others.
- (V) Good idea.
- (VII) What happened to VI??? XD Interesting idea.
GENERAL STORY CHANGES
- 1) I don't know about vampires on this plane; kinda chafes against the optimistic nature of the set.
- 2) Instead of The Reckoning of Talent or a place where the Muses appear a a certain time, how about this: At noon in the height of the /return (I'm not sure what day), there is a freak eclipse that lasts for about an hour. During that time, an effect similar to the Aurora Borealis appears in the sky, and the glowing animals that are the minor Muses appear on the islands. This time is when people receive the Gifting and spark. The antagonist group plans to use hedrons from Zendikar to siphon the Grand Muses' powers, implant the vessels in their skulls, and become all-powerful. To do this, a person must create artwork that Awakens.
- 4) Again, where did 3 go? XD Since only the minor Muses are partly corporeal, nobody can "jump" on them; however, they can be contained. So let's say the leader's art Awakens, and he is Gifted by the Muse of Desire. He contains that Muse, and is flooded with ultimate desire and greed. He uses his newfound power to kill the other members of his group, then Planeswalks away. When he returns, he goes on a rampage trying to capture the other Grand Muses.
- 5) Yeah, I agree.
OTHER STUFF
- (Da Vinci and Sparking) Here's a proposal. Plot twist: Da Vinci is allied with the antagonists (maybe even is the antagonist leader) and supplies the hedrons.
- (Little Muses Leading the Way) I don't know about this; how about the antagonist/Desire hybrid dude makes his kication pretty clear.
So now it looks like this:
1. Jennel's friend Vicine (or something XD I like the phonetic similarity to 'vice'), who received the Gifting last Return, hasn't been seen by anyone in weeks. Though the reclusive inventor often spent days tinkering in solitude, Jennel is worried. She knocks on his door one day, without an answer. Then she notices blood on the doorstep. She breaks down his door, and finds him asleep on the floor, in tattered and bloody clothes. A cryptic letter is in his coat pocket, and it reads:
The deed is done. I have the vessels; they will capture the deepest emotions of everyone.
...or something like that. Beside the letter are half a dozen shards of strange stone, each covered with mysterious runes on at least one side (the hedron shards, in case you hadn't guessed XD). Jennel replaces the letter and shakes Vicine awake. He is startled and acting strangely. When asked about where he had been, he mumbles something about traveling, and quickly ushers Jennel out of his house, leaving the oven slightly suspicious.
2. On her way back into town, she passes a human standing on a street corner, yelling to a crowd about harnessing the Muses' power. Some sneered upon the proposal; others ignored; some cried of sacrilege. But a few looked on approvingly, nodding their agreement. Jennel passed one elven woman, who remarked scathingly to her companion, "Ridiculous... capture the emotions themselves..." The tall even stopped in her tracks. "Capturing emotions..." Vicine's letter! How strange; surely her friend had nothing to do with the foolish heretics that preached their blasphemy. It was probably a coincidence; he must have been speaking of his latest invention. But still, that shred of doubt remained.
3. The crowd began to disperse, jeering at the man. He yells at their backs, "Just wait for the eclipse! You'll see," before being silenced by a swift elbow from a woman who had joined him. She dragged the man away by his elbow whispering as Jennel craned her neck to hear, "...can't spoil the plan..." Several others followed the pair, chanting about using the Muses' power. Like a cult, thought Jennel, and she shivered involuntarily.
4. And so on. I'm not too sure about what happens in between, but the group comes together, Kedrah betrays them, and they find out about the plan.
5. The eclipse begins, and Vicine receives the Gifting, captures the Muse of Desire in his hedron, kills his followers, and planeswalks away.
6. He comes back and goes on a rampage, trying to capture the other Gand Muses.
7. The characters find and battle Vicine, and they draw heavily on their magic (which is fueled by emotion and inspiration), and are imbued with the power of the Grand Muses. Kedrah betrays Vicine and kills him, then becomes the new Muse of Desire.
8. Plot twist: Vicine had a piece of Innistrad's silver moon with him, and the Muses are trapped within it. The characters become the new Grand Muses.
If we want to make a return set, Vicine could Planeswalk away with the moon shard and the Muses, near death, then return later.
Joy
Sadness
Anger
Bliss
Faith
Passion
Fear
Spite
Greed
Regret
Love
Desire
Rage
Ire
Despair
Bravery
Isolation
Ambition
Gluttony
Grudge
Inspiration
Imagination
Determination
Skepticism
Solitude
Patience
Valourous
Wry
Dry
Basically a big ol' word dump.
We can probably assume the races of the main character will be part of it though. After that I entered a few propositions and the iconic races (angels/sphinxes/demons/dragons/hydras) by default. Which gives us:
I know vampires are debated but none of the black tribes are a good fit for an optimistic set anyways. At least the vampires have an aristocratic feel and dress with typical Renaissance clothes, we can try but I'm convinced we won't find a better fit than this. Zombies may be a no-go for instance, just like in Kaladesh.
@MagicChess
REVISED MUSES
IMPORTANT CHARACTERS
III) I'm still very uncomfortable with the idea of having five people sparking at the same time on the same plane, especially since they're destined to transform into Muses anyways. In what Gelectrode wrote, Gifting didn't necessarily mean sparking and I think that's the right way to do it. Sparking is supposed to be something rare, most planes we visited have one or two planeswalkers on them. Otherwise, the main reason that I proposed the black plagiarist to start with the bad guys is to avoid having all characters together from the beginning of the story. I'm fine with him starting as the hero's friend as long as we don't start the story with five characters each representing its colour's emotion because it's too obvious in my opinion. Which is why I liked the idea of them being four most of the time then recruiting the black one at the end.
IV) The proposition for the red character to be male is really to avoid the comparison with Chandra ^^ We have all the choices but between keeping the character female because its first draft felt a bit more female and changing the character slightly so it fits a male and therefore avoid comparison with Chandra, I think the right move is twitching the character to our needs ^^ For the leader thing, we could try to do it without a leader, but we're going to decide the dynamic between the characters at some point, and leadership is something that is going to pop up naturally I think. But those are details we can discuss later, it's not that important to the cards ^^ The best way for them to avoid having a leader and feel like the Gatewatch could be to work separately actually? We could consider two or three different stories that converge at the end?
VII) I noted only the points where I wanted to discuss something, which is why I skipped "VI" and "3)"
GENERAL STORY
1) As I mentoned above, none of the black tribes will be a good fit for an optimistic set, but vampires are aristocratic and dress in Renaissance clothes, so I think we'll hardly find a better fit for Black ^^ We could make them feel like gentlemen with hidden agendas in the story to soften their presence ^^
2) The Eclipse thing where the little muses could be cool but wer'e losing the main point of this part of the story: It's a way to witness the Grand Muses because that's when the bad guys attack. So I'm fine with it but the Grand Muses must make an appearance. As I already mentioned, I'm already very very very uncomfortable with the idea of muses distributing sparks likes candies ^^"
4) Actually, we're starting to have some really specific debates about how this works (are they corporeal, do you need to have an awaken art to be gifted etc.) but do we have a way to show that on at least a card? What artworks do we have that could represent the gifting? We should probably start from there and adjust the story to that.
OTHER STUFF:
- Sure, Da Vinci being with the antagonists could be a thing as well. But if it means we don't get to meet him in the story because the heroes don't work with him it's a bit of a waste.
- We can forget about following the muses but then we need to incorporate the two main ideas somewhere else: an exploration phase (maybe on a boat?), and the little muses.
- Oh, you picture the Muses rapt as something public that people talk about in the streets? I was thinking something hidden, a surprise attack, but yes it could also be some sort of ideological battle where the bad guys try to rally other people publicly.
- Okay, I really think there's too much Gifting going on XD Isn't that supposed to be a bit exceptional? I have the feeling there are three gifting per minute — and in this version gifting = sparking so it's even more of a big deal ^^"
- I don't mind the leader of the bad guys being the "final boss" but does that means we give up on the corrupted muse idea then? I kinda prefered it because it would have let us do a sixth muse (maybe colorless) which was visually interesting ^^
- We still need to incorporate returning planeswalkers to the story, any ideas?
Awakened art ≠ Gifting. Gifting ≠ Sparking.
During the Return, many peoples' artwork Awakens, if they are inspired enough. However, this does not entail a Gifting. During the eclipse, a select few receive the Gifting; all of these are people whose art has Awakened, but a Gifting does not entail sparking. Out of the handful of the Gifted, both those who already have a spark, AND the others, ignite and become Planeswalkers. Sparking because of a Gifting is rare enough that there are only 2 or 3 Planeswalkers in a given generation. Maybe the Da Vinci character was the only one who sparked last time.
So it sounds like we don't want all of our main characters to spark. In that case, let's have all of them receive a Gifting, but only one or two spark.
Now our list of 'walkers looks like this:
- Da Vinci character
- One main protagonist
- Another main protagonist
- Returning 'walker??
For the protagonists that spark, I think it should be Kedrah and either Salendi or Ekoma. Kedrah's card would focus on Art hate, Salendi's card would use a Virtuoso strategy, and Ekoma's card would maybe have to do with scrying? Or something else to represent music.
On capturing the Muses: Yes, I was going for an idealogical war, but without the antagonists actually telling their plan to people on the street. Instead, they try to gather support, then plan in secret with their followers. Here's an idea: Kedrah is sent to spy on one of their secret meetings, and decides to join them after reporting back.
On a corrupted Muse: Oh, you're right. Hmm. I really liked that, too. Do we scrap one idea and use the other? Should we compromise? Any ideas? XD
On the creature grid: I like it so far, but I kinda want to do Drakes in URG instead of mono-R dragons for two reasons: I have no idea why XD but drakes feel more optimistic than dragons. Maybe because of Kaladesh? And because the set takes place in an archipelago, so I think it would be prudent to give them some ties to water/islands.
White small and medium nonflying can be humankind dwarves (if we're doing dwarves), Blue and Black medium nonflying are Sirens.
That list of planeswalkers sounds diversified enough, with three local and two returning planeswalkers, including a side-character in Da Vinci, I like it ^^
Yes, I agree that Kedrah, the black character, should get a spark as it let us show a huge progression in the character from his egotistic betrayal to his final redempting self-sacrifice to replace the black Muse ^^ Another possibility could be the leader of the bad guys, to create a more scary villain? Anyways, let's consider the black slot taken by one of these two.
For the second one, we have to consider gender issues and colour issues: Da Vinci and Kedrah are both male, so we probably want our first female in this third slot. I'm still unsure about letting the red character be a woman, unless we have ideas to really differenciate her from Chandra. Making her a non-human could work. But Ekoma, the blue character, sounds like a safer choice for this reason. My problem is, shouldn't Da Vinci be blue? If so, maybe the white aven, because we're sure this one is female?
Ok, so the bad guys are a hidden organization? I wasn't sure because above you wrote "she passes a human standing on a street corner, yelling to a crowd about harnessing the Muses' power" which didn't sound like they were hiding very much XD Yes, I can believe them having selfish reasons for wanting to capture the Muses but hiding behind an ideology to justify their actions. By the way, maybe they should try to steal "a Muse" instead of "the Muses" to emphasize that it's crazy, risky, and a priori impossible to attack even a single Muse?
Sure, we can do Drakes instead of Dragons, they basically look the same anyway. Actually we can even do both (drakes being medium size and dragons large size), Amonkhet had both for instance. Just, no green Drakes, because Green is not supposed to have flyiers at all. Phoenixes sound like a huge hit for Renaissance though, I'd like red to keep them if possible. White/Blue medium drakes and push aven to little flyiers? Or Black/Blue medium drakes and push vampires to little flyiers?
Yeah sure, dwarves are a common trope we should have plenty of good artwork for them! Maybe small nonflying red/white because a lot of artworks are probably going to show mountains?
And how about blue/white faeries as an optimistic twist on the blue/black faeries?
Here's a little test:
I'm just unsure about blue and black sharing both medium races in this table, maybe Blue/Red Sirens?
I also want to inquire if Humans are present in the set. It would be difficult not to include them!
1. I personally like the idea of a corrupted sixth "greater" muse.
2. I like the idea of glowing animals to represent minor muses.
3. I'm not so sure how much I personally like the idea of gifting, for a couple reasons.
A. Sparking is because of near death or traumatizing incidents, like Chandra's Execution or Liliana turning her brother into the undead, yet we're trying to use it as a primary method of triggering sparks.
B. It's being rewarded by the muses, which resonates a bit too much like the trials and cartouches to me.
4. I'm down for an evil organization kinda thing, but it should be planning to capture one muse, so that all the different odds and stuff aren't astronomically unlikely.
Yes humans are in all colours in every set by default (unless something very specific keeps them out, I think it happened once or twice in tribal sets) so they don't appear in the grid but they are here for sure!
@Lujikul On gifting:
- It has been a discussion that a lot of characters spark under terrible circumstances but technically any strong emotion, or even a huge realization could make one spark. So, it's probably an ok way to spark from a lore point of view: http://markrosewater.tumblr.com/post/163243862958/hi-mark-samuts-spark-ignited-out-of-a-kind-of
- You do bring a strong point on the trials/cartouche thing ^^ It's true the gifting haven't done anything specific in the story, we could actually remove it and it would stay the same. I just like the name, but it doesn't seem to have any specific role plotwise yet.
- Yeap, as I mentioned above I'm all for the bad guys plan being to capture one muse. It's a tiny detail but it does emphasize the difficulty of the plan better I think.
I agree that they should only be trying to capture one Muse. It makes things more realistic, and emphasizes the risk.
@Lujikul, as for #3...
A. This is a new, unique version of sparking meant to emphasize the optimistic nature of the set and be really cool and interesting
B. Maybe Gifting isn't the right word, because the Muses are very mysterious beings that have no agenda that we know of and, (like Eldrazi) may or may not even be sentient.
@ningyounk
Yes, there is a difference between sirens and merfolk. (I know English isn't your first language, so no harm done
But, mind, everything can't be optimistic; there should be some darker themes: so far capturing Muses. I think evil sirens would be fine, since they're confined to their remote islands.
==> Do you categorize her as merfolk or siren in MTG terms? For me it's a siren, as I know her as "La Petite Sirène."
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siren_(mythology)
As such, when I look at cards like Lord of Atlantis, I would categorize the Little Mermaid as Merfolk. That's my two cents.
http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Siren+of+the+Fanged+Coast
@everyone Here are the results from the name poll, based on 16 answers ^^
We actually have two names that cross the 50% positive opinion line!
1) Rezatta (score: 57)
2) Estoria (score: 56)
____________
3) Caprizio (score: 48)
4) Resoria (score: 47)
5) Julvenia (score: 38)
[EDITED 06:57p.m at Greenwich]
As I mentioned, this is just informative, we're not compelled to choose Estoria or Rezatta because of this, it's more an indication towards what appeals to people or not
First, we have Rezatta. If there are people who voted against it in the conversation, could they express their reasons so we can consider what changes would make this option better?
On the other hand, we have Estoria. It does sound good for me but, as I already said, it's a real word (History in portuguese) so I'm not sure how valid of a name it would be (it's a bit like calling Amonkhet "Sable" even though it means "Sand" in french.) We could consider changing it very slightly?
I like both Estoria and Rezzata, though the fact that estoria is a real word is a serious downside.
On an admittedly pretty random note, have you ever said Amonkhet to a heathen (aka a pseudo-human who doesn't play MTG XD) and get a puzzled "Almond cat?" in response?
@MagicChess Estora would avoid the real word issue (I believe) but we lose the part that I think was interesting in the name (the "stori" radical). I'm not sure "Estrus" has enough resonance to support the set name by itself
Potential names:
Gnalbia
Sronkatin
Guel'arn
Ciretta
Primesia (pree-MEZ-ia)
Lomentaris
Sronkatin --> The sr + k + tin combo gives me a very strong russian vibe because of how guttural it sounds x) Again, I'm not sure what the radical is, the first word it makes me think of is stronzo (which is not a very polite one.)
Guel'arn: Well putting an apostrophe in a name immediatly makes me think of fantastic languages like orc, dwarf, or whatever Ctulhu is. Again, I'm not sure about the origin of the name?
Ciretta: It sounds very good but it's an actual name for girls in Italy
Primesia (pree-MEZ-ia): We have a clear radical on this one, but it's a bit blunt in my opinion. I think it could give something interesting if we manage to mix a second meaning at the end of the name.
Lomentaris --> Finishing a word in "is" sounds a bit atypical considering how often italian uses "izzo" or "izzio". Once again, I'm not sure what the message behind the name is, is it "moment"?
I wish I could say those had inspirations, but they were mostly me just putting together various sounds in my head.
@everyone I wanted to come back a little on the Muses propositions. While starting to think about how to design them, they're pretty clearly going to be top-down based on the emotion they represent, so I found it unfortunate that we removed the negative emotions. Doing a cycle based on emotion and not including super important ones like sadness and anger feels like a huge miss to me. We stopped on those five: Joy, Discovery, Desire, Love, Certainty. Just a little above, we have a huge list of other good emotions by Lujikul and, as I mentioned already, the seven universal ones are joy, sadness, surprise, fear, comptempt, disgust, and anger. Could we try to make them feel like they hit a broader range of emotions? The "Muse of X & Y" is still an option by the way if we want to balance positive and negative emotions perfectly ^^
From @Lujikul's list, plus a couple extra:
W
Faith WG
Bravery WR
Determination W
Valor W
Honor WG
U
Sadness UB
Isolation U
Solitude UGB
Patience UG
Contemplation U
B
Fear B
Greed BR
Desire B
Regret BUR
Ambition B
Despair B
Vengeance RWB
R
Joy R
Anger RB
Passion R
Rage R
Ire R
G
Bliss G
Love GW
Acceptance G
(Inner) Peace GUW
Spite=colorless
We could have the main Muses be monocolored, and the little Muses be primarily one color, with one or two others on the side. Maybe hybrid mana to showcase that? For example:
Vengeance= {b}{w/r}
or
Patience {u}{u/g}
And we should also consider the mechanical function of the Muses. Should they give you psylian life? Should they require to be paid with psylian life? For example,
Muse of Passion {1}{r}{r}
Legendary Creature - Muse
Use only mana produced with psylian life to cast Muse of Passion.
[effects]
Forcing you to pay psylian to cast Muses allows us to make their mana costs relatively low.
Here's a weird, funky idea: All the Muses are 0/0s with indestructible, and they grow bigger when you do something unique to the card. For example, the Muse of Contemplation might have, "Whenever you draw a card, if it was;t the first card you drew this turn, put a +1/+1 counter on Muse of /Contemplation."
Then again, how do we make the little Muses different than the Grand Muses? Are they not legends? Do they have different names; for example Vengeance Incarnate?