Rezatta, the life-matters Renaissance plane — SET DESIGN PHASE

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  • edited May 2020
    Brainstorming...
    Big rival army(Maybe some sort of anti-emotion group?)
    Brainstorming...
    GOT IT! A character based off of Oliver Cromwell! I know he wasn't technically Rebirth, but he does feel very anti rebirth @ningyounk...

    Edit:Another idea, but what if we had the plague? It did occur roughly at the same time, as Da Vinci lived through it, and it would be a really nice recognizable theme @ningyounk.

  • The plague could be a theme as it's the right period and the masks are very cool visually, but I'm worried it's not necessarily fitting the feel of the set. It's all blooming and happy with talking animals, I don't know if the plague really suits the tone. Maybe we could make a few cards like doctors with the plague masks, and maybe like one black removal to hint that it exists but without making it too much of a deal.

    A group pushing against the Renaissance could work as an antagonist that drive the plot if we can find them a motivation (like kill Serra or something) ^^

    Basically anything is possible, so I suppose it would be best to start based on our few limitations:

    1) Whatever we invent, we need to have solid illustrations to depict them on cards. So, ideally, we'd find recurring themes that are depicted in multiple illustrations so we can make a story out of it.

    This is why I keep bringing up the silver-haired girl as Eco by the way, main characters tend to appear on multiple cards in the set (see Lukka in Ikoria for instance) and the artist WLOP has painted this girl a dozen times in various situations.






    2) We have quite a few characters already (Da Vinci, Mona Lisa, Eco, Serra, etc.), we could start by asking what would be interesting to do with them. For instance:

    • Da Vinci has this little twist that he's a planeswalker who tends to take inspiration from other plane. Something I mentioned way earlier was that he could solve the climax of the story by bringing a recognizable object from another plane like a hedron from Zendikar or a piece of Innistrad's moon xD

    • Mona Lisa is shady AF, we need to find her a cool secret. Also, it could be a cool joke that Da Vinci pretends she's his perfectly normal wife even though he actually painted her himself.

    • I love the character of Eco, I feel there's so much we could do with her. If we go with the WLOP illustration, there's a strong melancholy coming from her, like something happened to her but nobody's sure what as she doesn't talk. On multiple illustrations she also has those scars in the back that look like she had wings that were cut off. Maybe she was an Angel, maybe she's related to the rebirth of Serra in some dark way (I always thought we needed a cool rebirth ritual for Serra).

    For instance, I could see her showing up inside the royal palace, nobody knows who she is and what she's doing there so they give her a made-up name, then later they realise she expresses herself through music.


    __

    Basically, we should gather all kinds of bits and pieces of ideas, back them up with some illustrations when possible, select the ones we like and try to mash them together into a cohesive story ^^


  • I agree @ningyounk, I saw WLOP's art a while ago on artstation, and everything you said is brilliant. Rethinking...
  • edited May 2020
    Since we're on the subject of the story, I'm also going to repost an old commend I made on the world building thread. In the action genre which is where Magic stories belong, there are typically a finite set of possible plots (I borrowed that from the book "The Story Grid: What Good Editors Know" by Shawn Coyne which makes podcast on writing novels. We might might to consider each of those individually to pinpoint what would make the best type of plot for Rezatta:

    1. Action Adventure — Use natural world or specific settings as villains.
    - Labyrinth Plot: The hero must save the victim and get out. (Die Hard)
    - Monster Plot: The villain is an animal. (Jaws)
    - Environment plot: The villain is a global setting. (Gravity)
    - Doomsday plot: The environment must be saved from disaster. (Independence Day)

    2. Action Epic — Use societal institutions or tyrants as villains.
    - Rebellion Plot: Hero against visible tyrant (Darth Vader in Star Wars)
    - Conspiracy Plot: Hero against invisible tyrant (The Bourne Identity)
    - Vigilante Plot: Hero against criminal organization (Above the Law)
    - Savior Plot: Hero against someone who wants to destroy society (The Dark Knight)

    3. Action Duel — Use another human as villain.
    - Revenge Plot: Hero chases the villain.
    - Hunted Plot: Villain chases the hero.
    - Machiavellian Plot: Hero sets two villains against each other.
    - Collision Plot: Villain set two heroes against each other.

    4. Action Clock — Based on a deadline.
    - Ransom Plot: Deadline imposed by the villain.
    - Countdown Plot: Deadline superimposed by circumstances.
    - Holdout Plot: Must holdout until others can rally. (The 300)
    - Fate Plot: Time is the villain. (Back to the Future)

    Note that this concerns the external genre of the story, the main plot, the "arch-plot", but of course some of the characters can have individual mini-plots showing how they grow at a more internal level.
  • I have a couple of things I want to say:
    1. Last night I had the weirdest dream that @ningyounk was teaching little kids biology by stuffing dead animals with spores
    2. I'm gonna go make an animal card
    3. When I first read "Environment" I thought that "Gravity" referred to real life gravity. I get it now.
    4. Countdown plot seems fun
  • This might seem random but I had an idea for the story I thought was cool. What if Eco was an aspect of Serra? Like as the "rebirth" of the plane is happening a part of Serra incarnated as Eco. And that's why she just appears the plane with no memories. The heroes could be trying to find a way to bring Serra back as some kind of countdown is going on. In the end Eco could sacrifice herself in some way (A really powerful song or spell that requires an aspect of Serra to work) to bring Serra back and to save the day.
  • My goodness @IzItTru, your a frizzing genius.
  • edited May 2020
    @IzItTru

    I really like the idea, it's very poetic and it has some strong metaphorical implications. The concept that she's a missing part of Serra reminds me of the Pixar movie Inside Out where some emotions get lost inside the head of the main protagonist. 

    Also, it shouldn't be too hard to find an illustration to go with the sacrifice:



    That also could open up a freaky version of Serra that kind of acts as an antagonist? Like she's missing compassion or something?
  • Yeah! A golgari non-planeswalker serra, then plus eco and we get normal serra!
  • @ningyounk @LordTachanka123 Thanks! Rezatta is a really cool set so I'm always happy to contribute.
  • edited May 2020
    @ningyounk ; @IzItTru @LordTachanka123

    So how would Serra regain her compassion?
  • What if the golgari version of Serra is the sets villian? She or he could be the other aspect of Serre and Eco's counter part. In the end Eco sacrifices herself to fuse with the villian and Serra is reborn.


    The Villian could be turning the parts of the Church of Serra against Rezzatta's Rebirth and hunting down the muses to end it. Eco and the other heroes could be trying to stop them from throwing the plane into a second dark age. The one or all of the muses teach Eco a powerful song that she uses to defeat the villian and save Rezatta.

  • Brilliant! If @ningyounk allows it, I vote for you to be chief flavor designer @IzItTru

  • edited May 2020
    I've been thinking about the conflict thing a bit, and one thing I determined was not to involve the Church of Serra in it because between that and serran life, if that was also very plot involved we could run the risk of making it seem like a set about Serra as opposed to the Renaissance. Obviously it's too big to wholy ignore, but it shouldn't be a main focus. And with that, these are the ideas for conflicts I came up with.

    There is someone or a group of people working to return the plane to its previous wintered state. Positive: This gives us a chance for emotions and art and forms of self expression to save the day, and those are some of the main focuses of our set. Issue: The villains would need a reason to do this, and that's something I can't figure out. 

    Someone is actively harming and sabotaging artists and their works, to a point that's beyond any sense of competitive nature. Positive: The "people who do bad things are villains" trope is on our side for this. Straightforward and understandable. Issue: This undermines the positive mood of the set and provides what feels like a very cliche villain, similar to Tezzert on Kaladesh.

    During the Renaissance, there were several very influential families in Italy. Maybe something with them? Positive: Can provide a deeper sense of world building. Issue: This could definitely complicate matters and characters and overshadow the positive themes.

    Kaladesh route: big ol' contest. Postitive: Very easy conflict to grasp. Issue: Feels too cliche in my opinion.
  • Ooh, @Lujikul, could you check out the Borgias? I've already posted some story of them, but they could be good inspiration.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s1ADwv2A1wg
  • @LordTachanka123 Thanks! I don't think ningyounk is ready to start with flavor just yet though.

    @Lujikul Yeah that's a good point, I like the idea of the villains being nobles. Maybe they have more power over a world that relies on war and violence to than one that relies on art and emotion? It could play into the theme of Rezatta is changing from it's former cold emotionless "winter" to the new spring. Maybe the muses were asleep during the "winter" and are now coming back leading to the people of Rezatta to find their love for discovery and art again so this family is trying to kill the muses and discourage the artists and researchers?

    My main problem with this is your point about overshadowing the focus on Rezatta's Rebirth with the story.
  • Hey @ningyounk, I saw some discussion earlier about a mechanic named "enlighten," but it doesn't appear that you used it... Could i snatch it up for my set?
  • Wow, a lot has changed since I was last here, @ningyounk, I just wanted to say when choosing art, make sure its not too revealing as some people might be offended by that.
  • @Lujikul ;Is this a wedge set?
  • I do not know @MTG_Sappy, as I am a relative newcomer.
  • @LordTachanka123,  Okay I was here from somewhere around the very beginning but have not been around for a while, you can find one of my comments on page 1 of this thing, If it is a wedge set, i have some ideas as to the cycle or two of mythic legends
  • @MTG_Sappy the draft archetypes are wedge themed.
  • @IzItTru So could I make 5 wedge commanders mythics 1 for each of the archetypes?
  • @MTG_Sappy you would have to ask @ningyounk their in charge.
  • Okay, got it
  • @ningyounk
    This is slightly off-topic, but you may have heard of @Tigersol's new prehistory set(Actually, I know you have).
    As I am doing a lot of work on the world-building there, I made up a force, similar to the World-Soul, called the Amolga(Name is work in progress). Whilst me and @MTG_Sappy were talking about it, we figured that it will most likely have "shattered" and sent shards of it to other planes, namely Ikoria and Ixalan. 
    What he brought up, was that the Amolga might have gone to Kaladesh, but instead of directly affect the world, it inspired the people there. See where I'm going?
    So, what if, this wouldn't even need to be referenced, but the Amolga happened to go to Rezatta? And inspire some sculptures or the like?
  • edited May 2020
    @LordTachanka123
    About Golgari Serra:
    I think the idea of Serra being an antagonist is something we should explore at least a bit, though we shouldn't immediately lock into the idea because having a true benevolent Serra can also have its advantages to the story.
    I'm less fond of the idea of having a golgari Serra card. While the idea is cute on paper, I feel uncomfortable missing on a white serra planeswalker card which, I think, would be an expectation of someone hearing about the premise of the set. The "joke" of BG Serra + W Eco = GWB Church of Serra can only work if we really hammer the GWB part, and I don't think it would be easy to do in a non-multicolour-centric set. I think you would need to have seen this conversation to get it.

    About the Amolga:
    I'm a bit wary of cross-breeding custom sets with each other >.< It's really difficult to do and most sets I've seen get abandoned way before completion, so there's always a risk one of the sets ends up referencing another set that don't exist. I'd rather base myself on an already finished set if we did that.
    In addition, it's a matter of design difficulty: It's already super difficult to create a set when you control all the parameters (see how we've been unable to decide what drives the plot of Rezatta for such a long time as an example), so I'd rather start as easy as possible to try and make this set work before trying something of larger scale with an extended world that brings all kinds of restrictions ^^

    @Lujikul
    About the place of the Church of Serra in the story:

    I'd actually be ok with Serra and her Church taking a more central part in the story, thematically Serra is an embodiment of a lot of values we have associated with Renaissance anyways, so the rebirth of Serra can really be a metaphor for the Renaissance of rezatta itself. Also, Renaissance is actually a pretty shallow theme trope-wise so it's good to have a strong second theme to complement it (like the Bolas theme of Amonkhet).

    Ral1000

    About Enlighten:
    We had a mechanic called Enlighten? XD I don't remember it, I think it was a suggestion for a better name for the Renaissance mechanic actually x) But sure, we don't own any name, even if we end up with similar names on some cards and mechanics it doesn't matter ^^

    @MTG_Sappy

    About the revealing illustration:

    Ah, I suppose you're talking about that last one where she stands naked on top of the world? It didn't really shock me personally as you don't see anything you shouldn't and there's a clear monstruous theme going on that kind of de-humanise her, but yes I suppose we should avoid that one illustration, we don't need to make people uncomfortable ^^

    About the wedge aspect:
    Nope, this is not a wedge set, so we shouldn't have a tricolour card in there (maybe at Mythic for story purpose we might squeeze one, like they squeezed Bant Tamiyo in Shadows Over Innistrad, but that would be an exception). So no wedge cycle, sorry ^^

    The confusion likely comes from the fact that the main themes at common are arranged in a wedge style, but that's actually a trick I borrowed from the last two core set, it's a simple way of creating more synergy in the set while reducing the overall complexity. The draft archetypes would be normal two-coloured themes by the way ^^ The wedge common themes are more overarching themes that embrace the other archetypes.
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