OK, so that was a great conversation, but back to the set:
I think it's a good idea to, as a next step, establish all of the tribes and their different uses within the plane:
-Humans. I think that we are assuming that the humans are the ones who established the school early on in the plane's history. They are the backbone of the school's teachings, and they have a long conflict with the elves.
-Vampires. An alternative option/plot twist could be that the vampires founded the school. However, I think it makes a little more sense for the humans to have done this, then made some kind of deal with the vampires so that they can learn music as well. Perhaps there are actually many more vampires than humans living across the plane, and the bargain was that, in return for peace between the tribes, the vampires would be allowed to learn at the school.
Vedalken. Perhaps this tribe of blue-skinned humanoids would actually be pretty rare within the plane. I'm guessing that there was no bargain needed for them to learn in the school, as they are just a peaceful tribe intent on knowledge and the joy of music. This would provide a nice contrast to the vampires, and provide a point of conflict between the two.
-Elves. This tribe, seen in mtg many times before, are the leaders of the outcasts within the plane. They probably hate the humans for their exclusion, but have adapted in the wilds and created a new kind of music that can be enchanted to fight for them. They have made a pact with the bears, letting them partake in their music in return for protection.
-Bears. Loyal protectors of the outcasts, these noble creature love music but are far too clumsy to actually compose anything, to their great dismay. They have a bad temper, but luckily the elves have learned to sooth this temper using music alone.
-Other tribes. Most developed planes in recent sets have had many different tribes, and I think it should be about the same here. Someone suggested Giants, but that might run a little too close to Throne of Eldraine, as well as override the mightiness of the bears. Another possibility might be to add back Fae (Faeries), as evasive creatures that are simply wild and not helping either side.
Let me remind you guys that these are just discussion points and things we have begun to establish. Nothing I said here has been fixed. I'd be happy for anything anyone has to offer. Thanks everyone again for the love and support!
I like the faeries idea, and I think they should be totally immune from the effects of all music. In other words, they're wild and mischievous as always. But one thing to note... if you're trying not to make this too much like Throne of Eldraine... why faeries? They're just as present in Eldraine as Giants, maybe more present...
Hmm, I definitely see what you're saying. I mostly didn't really want Giants because they might override Bears being the strongest tribe on the plane. You're right about that though, I think Faeries being immune to the music suites things better than Giants in any case.
@joemamajoe it could work either way. If you've been following Rezatta, the discover mechanic is a good example. I'm not trying to make it identical to scry, so if it's a little under powered that's ok.
@shadow123 I agree. With the three other mechanics being introduced in this set, it doesn't have to be a large popular mechanic like scry anyway.
If anyone wants to try experimenting with these mechanics on cards and posting them on here, go right ahead! No pressure though, just feedback is fine too.
OK, so I made a couple examples for each of the mechanics Inspired and Enlightened. I really like the way they shape out on the cards, so I decided to share some examples with you guys:
Inspired (Only creatures):
Enlightened (Only Instants/Sorceries):
These are only very rough ideas, and none of them are in the actual set frame yet (No cards are yet as we started only recently!), but I thought it would be cool to start experimenting with the formatting, ect. I'd be happy for any new ideas, or any feedback you have to offer!
@Ral1000 What about just civilized vampires? Why are people with anemia are always the bad guys anyway?
Also the vampires make the best music because they are faster and stronger than a regular human. Like they probably could shed an electric guitar for hours, playing Dragonforce songs in full speed without breaking any sweat (although vampires don't sweat because they are already dead, or is it undead?)
Well, speed and strength aren't everything. A slow paced song can be just as good as a fast paced one. But yeah, the Vamps should be good guys, but I don't know about civilized. I think it would be interesting to see green Vampires @Fallen_Lord_Vulganos.
@Fallen_Lord_Vulganos I like the idea! The vampires should probably be a little more civilized as you have said. I'm not entirely sure about the electric guitars in a fantasy-based set, but who knows?
@LordTachanka123 about enlightened- I think that the creature tapping already leaves it pretty open and easy to accomplish, and I'm not sure if we want to make it even easier, as the upsides are fairly good. About the green Vampires, remember that they are a part of the school, which was made Grixis at your suggestion, so blue would probably fit them better.
We could also just leave blue for the Vedalken, make the Vampires Rackdos, and the humans all three colors. I'm liking this idea more and more as I think about it since it would help balance out the tribes without breaking the color pie.
The set looks great! Just a couple ideas on Enlightened:
If it is to appear exclusively on instants / sorceries, you might want to have the wording similar to kicker. As an example,
--- Heartfire Siphon Instant 3R
Enlighten (As an additional cost to cast this spell, you may tap an untapped creature you control.)
CARDNAME deals 3 damage to any target. If this spell was enlightened, CARDNAME deals 5 damage to that target instead. ---
We probably want some payoffs for enlightened. The traditional ways to do this are, again, like kicker:
--- Keen Educator Creature 3U
Whenever you cast an instant or sorcery spell, draw a card. Then discard a card unless that spell was enlightened.
1/3 ---
Another type of payoff that kicker can't do is to give a bonus to the creatures used to tap for the cost.
--- Passionate Preacher Creature 2R
Whenever CARDNAME attacks or enlightens a spell, CARDNAME deals 1 damage to any target.
2/1 ---
"CARDNAME enlightens a spell" when it is tapped to pay the additional cost of a spell with Enlighten.
By the way, I think it wouldn't be unreasonable to have kicker replace the enlightened, as it is a more restricted version of kicker. I guess the name "kicker" doesn't tie into the theme well, but that's not a big concern in my opinion...
@shadow123 of course you can! I would love to see anything you have to offer!
@LyndonF thanks so much for all this feedback! I think I would like to keep it as "Enlightened" as it is an Enlightenment-based set, but I see what you mean about the wording, and that can be changed:
On second thought, I liked the original layout of the cards a little more, so are you sure this is how it will have to stay? I don't really see why the fist version wouldn't work, even though it wouldn't imitate kicker exactly. Since I'm trying to make it a different mechanic altogether, maybe it would be okay to just keep it how it is?
About the creature examples you put there, I really like just about all of them! That kind of thing probably won't show up until uncommon, but I'll be happy for us to work with them at that point.
@Ral1000 I do agree the previous ones might seem better, but they are not correctly templated. And I personally want to stick to official wordings as much as possible.
On another topic, I have an idea that only appears on instants and sorceries. Here I present to you: Encore!
Encore {cost} (You may cast this spell for its Encore cost. If you do, you can't cast spells this turn.)
The idea is that since Encore is usually the additional song sung / performed after the concert officially ends, it should capture the essence of being the last song in the performance. Epic from Kamigawa isn't the best idea, so I went with the last spell of the turn.
I think this mechanic fits best in BR then U or even G, which should be the same colors as the school. (White probably hates the idea.) This might fight with Compose a bit, but Compose feels like the mechanic that should replace scry (e.g. there are no cards with scry in Guilds of Ravnica, since surveil was in the set).
Some examples with this mechanic (each followed by some comments):
--- Thundering Concerto 2R Instant
CARDNAME deals 3 damage to any target. Encore R ---
A common burn spell that can turn into a good old lightning bolt.
--- Overflowing Power 2B Instant
Target creature you control gets +3/+3 until end of turn. If CARDNAME's Encore cost was paid, it gains deathtouch until end of turn. At the beginning of the next end step, sacrifice that creature. Encore 2B ---
It might seem weird that the cost and Encore cost are the same, but remember there is a trade off of not being able to cast any more spells.
--- Enthusiastic Cadenza 2R Sorcery
Target creature you control deals damage to its power to target creature an opponent controls. If CARDNAME's Encore cost was paid, instead the creature you control deals damage to its power to each creature your opponents control. Encore 3RR ---
Practically two related split cards: one being a decent removal spell, and the other a game-ending board wipe.
Of course, this mechanic isn't perfect. Here are some of its precautions:
Like Escape (from Theros Beyond Death), this mechanic is anti-linear: the more cards with Encore in your deck, the harder you can take advantage of all of them. So it need not be a major point of the set.
Also, there does not appear to be much space for development. I tried making a blue example for this, but a) I can't find a card with a suitable theme, and b) it's hard to make it special. You can definitely go for some like a divination (2U Sorcery Draw two cards) with Encore 1U, but it's not quite exciting.
@LyndonF thanks so much for this idea! As you mentioned, there isn't much room left for development, but I think this would fit quite well with the theme of the school. As for compose, I now realize that because I am having it replace scry, there is in fact room for us to add in Encore! Thanks for helping me understand that!
As compose is the scry replacement, if should take up more than just the colors of the school, and the Encore mechanic fits right into Grixis (or at the very least Rackdos), as you pointed out.
I honestly really like Encore, but as it is kind of like a split card, perhaps we should save it for uncommon? Common cards are supposed to be kind of basic, so there might not be much room for Encore within them. I could be wrong though... Let me know what you think!
@Ral1000 For common cards, just make the encore cost higher than the normal mana cost, make the uncommon ones mostly equal costs, and rare and mythics have lower costs... that will solve the problem. For example:
-- Desynchronize 1UU Instant
Counter target spell. If you cast this spell for its encore cost, tap target creature. It doesn't untap during its controller's next untap step. Encore 2UU. ---
Also, notice the wording should be "If you cast this spell for its encore cost" rather than "if it's encore cost was paid", because it's an alternate cost (like mutate), rather than an additional cost (like kicker).
Also, keep in mind, if you cast an instant spell for it's encore cost during an opponent's turn, it only prevents you from casting other spells that turn, so when balancing the power levels of instants vs sorceries, you'll want to keep this in mind.
Here are a few examples. The reason they don't have the set symbol yet is that they have been made in my "test" set and not in the actual set of course.
I think I got the reminder text right but I could be wrong...
Btw... I'm making you a different style of set symbol... I think you might like it. We'll see. It's not finished just yet, but it's pretty simple so it shouldn't take long, just haven't gotten around to finishing it yet.
Also, I think Volcanic shards should be uncommon, because remember, unless you're casting other spells on your opponent's turn, this is always gonna be 1 cost if you play it on an opponent's turn, since it's an instant.
Comments
I think it's a good idea to, as a next step, establish all of the tribes and their different uses within the plane:
-Humans. I think that we are assuming that the humans are the ones who established the school early on in the plane's history. They are the backbone of the school's teachings, and they have a long conflict with the elves.
-Vampires. An alternative option/plot twist could be that the vampires founded the school. However, I think it makes a little more sense for the humans to have done this, then made some kind of deal with the vampires so that they can learn music as well. Perhaps there are actually many more vampires than humans living across the plane, and the bargain was that, in return for peace between the tribes, the vampires would be allowed to learn at the school.
Vedalken. Perhaps this tribe of blue-skinned humanoids would actually be pretty rare within the plane. I'm guessing that there was no bargain needed for them to learn in the school, as they are just a peaceful tribe intent on knowledge and the joy of music. This would provide a nice contrast to the vampires, and provide a point of conflict between the two.
-Elves. This tribe, seen in mtg many times before, are the leaders of the outcasts within the plane. They probably hate the humans for their exclusion, but have adapted in the wilds and created a new kind of music that can be enchanted to fight for them. They have made a pact with the bears, letting them partake in their music in return for protection.
-Bears. Loyal protectors of the outcasts, these noble creature love music but are far too clumsy to actually compose anything, to their great dismay. They have a bad temper, but luckily the elves have learned to sooth this temper using music alone.
-Other tribes. Most developed planes in recent sets have had many different tribes, and I think it should be about the same here. Someone suggested Giants, but that might run a little too close to Throne of Eldraine, as well as override the mightiness of the bears. Another possibility might be to add back Fae (Faeries), as evasive creatures that are simply wild and not helping either side.
Let me remind you guys that these are just discussion points and things we have begun to establish. Nothing I said here has been fixed. I'd be happy for anything anyone has to offer. Thanks everyone again for the love and support!
If anyone wants to try experimenting with these mechanics on cards and posting them on here, go right ahead! No pressure though, just feedback is fine too.
Inspired (Only creatures):
Enlightened (Only Instants/Sorceries):
These are only very rough ideas, and none of them are in the actual set frame yet (No cards are yet as we started only recently!), but I thought it would be cool to start experimenting with the formatting, ect. I'd be happy for any new ideas, or any feedback you have to offer!
Also the vampires make the best music because they are faster and stronger than a regular human. Like they probably could shed an electric guitar for hours, playing Dragonforce songs in full speed without breaking any sweat (although vampires don't sweat because they are already dead, or is it undead?)
@LordTachanka123 about enlightened- I think that the creature tapping already leaves it pretty open and easy to accomplish, and I'm not sure if we want to make it even easier, as the upsides are fairly good. About the green Vampires, remember that they are a part of the school, which was made Grixis at your suggestion, so blue would probably fit them better.
The set looks great! Just a couple ideas on Enlightened:
If it is to appear exclusively on instants / sorceries, you might want to have the wording similar to kicker. As an example,
---
Heartfire Siphon
Instant 3R
Enlighten (As an additional cost to cast this spell, you may tap an untapped creature you control.)
CARDNAME deals 3 damage to any target. If this spell was enlightened, CARDNAME deals 5 damage to that target instead.
---
We probably want some payoffs for enlightened. The traditional ways to do this are, again, like kicker:
---
Keen Educator
Creature 3U
Whenever you cast an instant or sorcery spell, draw a card. Then discard a card unless that spell was enlightened.
1/3
---
Another type of payoff that kicker can't do is to give a bonus to the creatures used to tap for the cost.
---
Passionate Preacher
Creature 2R
Whenever CARDNAME attacks or enlightens a spell, CARDNAME deals 1 damage to any target.
2/1
---
"CARDNAME enlightens a spell" when it is tapped to pay the additional cost of a spell with Enlighten.
By the way, I think it wouldn't be unreasonable to have kicker replace the enlightened, as it is a more restricted version of kicker. I guess the name "kicker" doesn't tie into the theme well, but that's not a big concern in my opinion...
@LyndonF thanks so much for all this feedback! I think I would like to keep it as "Enlightened" as it is an Enlightenment-based set, but I see what you mean about the wording, and that can be changed:
On second thought, I liked the original layout of the cards a little more, so are you sure this is how it will have to stay? I don't really see why the fist version wouldn't work, even though it wouldn't imitate kicker exactly. Since I'm trying to make it a different mechanic altogether, maybe it would be okay to just keep it how it is?
About the creature examples you put there, I really like just about all of them! That kind of thing probably won't show up until uncommon, but I'll be happy for us to work with them at that point.
On another topic, I have an idea that only appears on instants and sorceries. Here I present to you: Encore!
Encore {cost} (You may cast this spell for its Encore cost. If you do, you can't cast spells this turn.)
The idea is that since Encore is usually the additional song sung / performed after the concert officially ends, it should capture the essence of being the last song in the performance. Epic from Kamigawa isn't the best idea, so I went with the last spell of the turn.
I think this mechanic fits best in BR then U or even G, which should be the same colors as the school. (White probably hates the idea.) This might fight with Compose a bit, but Compose feels like the mechanic that should replace scry (e.g. there are no cards with scry in Guilds of Ravnica, since surveil was in the set).
Some examples with this mechanic (each followed by some comments):
---
Thundering Concerto
2R
Instant
CARDNAME deals 3 damage to any target.
Encore R
---
A common burn spell that can turn into a good old lightning bolt.
---
Overflowing Power
2B
Instant
Target creature you control gets +3/+3 until end of turn. If CARDNAME's Encore cost was paid, it gains deathtouch until end of turn.
At the beginning of the next end step, sacrifice that creature.
Encore 2B
---
It might seem weird that the cost and Encore cost are the same, but remember there is a trade off of not being able to cast any more spells.
---
Enthusiastic Cadenza
2R
Sorcery
Target creature you control deals damage to its power to target creature an opponent controls. If CARDNAME's Encore cost was paid, instead the creature you control deals damage to its power to each creature your opponents control.
Encore 3RR
---
Practically two related split cards: one being a decent removal spell, and the other a game-ending board wipe.
Of course, this mechanic isn't perfect. Here are some of its precautions:
Like Escape (from Theros Beyond Death), this mechanic is anti-linear: the more cards with Encore in your deck, the harder you can take advantage of all of them. So it need not be a major point of the set.
Also, there does not appear to be much space for development. I tried making a blue example for this, but a) I can't find a card with a suitable theme, and b) it's hard to make it special. You can definitely go for some like a divination (2U Sorcery Draw two cards) with Encore 1U, but it's not quite exciting.
So... Yeah. (shrugs)
As compose is the scry replacement, if should take up more than just the colors of the school, and the Encore mechanic fits right into Grixis (or at the very least Rackdos), as you pointed out.
I honestly really like Encore, but as it is kind of like a split card, perhaps we should save it for uncommon? Common cards are supposed to be kind of basic, so there might not be much room for Encore within them. I could be wrong though... Let me know what you think!
--
Desynchronize
1UU
Instant
Counter target spell. If you cast this spell for its encore cost, tap target creature. It doesn't untap during its controller's next untap step.
Encore 2UU.
---
Also, notice the wording should be "If you cast this spell for its encore cost" rather than "if it's encore cost was paid", because it's an alternate cost (like mutate), rather than an additional cost (like kicker).
I think I got the reminder text right but I could be wrong...
Btw... I'm making you a different style of set symbol... I think you might like it. We'll see. It's not finished just yet, but it's pretty simple so it shouldn't take long, just haven't gotten around to finishing it yet.
Edit: Actually, it should be "if you cast this spell for it's encore cost", since again, it's like mutate, not kicker...
Edit 2: You got it right for "Flight in the Night", just not "Sickening Knowledge"
See my counterspell idea if you get confused.